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Everyone seems to want illegal immigration ended one way or another. A substantial number (probably a majority) want all illegal immigrants sent back to their country of origin. Primarily Mexico.
Others want a guest worker program to allow those here to remain but not become citizens.
Either way, both sides seem to agree that securing the U.S./Mexican border and not allowing so many illegal immigrants across is a good idea.
Major problem.
Roughly one milliion Mexicans come into the U.S. illegally every year. Just a couple of years ago, a Mexican official admitted that without the “safety valve” of large scale immigration to the U.S., Mexico would become “ungovernable” within two or three years. A buildup of three million young Mexicans without jobs in Mexico over the course of three years would mean chaos in Mexico.
It is entirely possible that the Mexican government would collapse entirely as hunger, despair, and eventually mass rioting and unrest spread.
And desperate Mexicans have only one direction to go.
A tidal wave of humanity from Mexico would flow toward the U.S./Mexican border. They would swamp all social and humanitarian services along the border and inevitably criminals and predators would be a part of that wave, preying on Mexican refugees and American citizens alike.
Eventually, the only solution left for the U.S. would be military invasion and occupation of Mexico. This would be a horrendous mess that would last for decades. This was one of the scenarios in the late Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger’s book “The Next War”.
So seal the border if you want. Kick out all illegals if you wish.
But know this:
The inevitable result of these actions will be the U.S. having to occupy and police Mexico with 300-500,000 troops at some point in the not so distant future.
37 Comments
Why can't the Mexican police their side? As for the rest of your article, it sounds like your reporting the news, not what ifs.
I thought we were in a war on terror, I think that alone would require secure borders and ports.
@michaelr:
the point is not whether the government can police their side. The point is that the only thing that keeps a people from disobeying the laws is if somehow the laws provide enough sustenance for the people as a whole.
You know this, I know this - you need only look to the Federalist Papers to know that the people who wrote the constitution acknowledged this fact. Some said that the new formed federal government should not have the ability to tax exports, only imports; and rightly so, had this been adopted, it would have promoted a 'culture of smuggling' where the law had essentially no effect on the day to day lives of people.
The governing force of America is not the government; it is the markets, that control the interactions between the people. How does the government promote change? Through taxes; it makes one option more profitable then the other. Unless, of course, you'd have them govern through the military, in which case the government ceases to be a government by the people for the people, and becomes the government of America.
But I have digressed.
Unless the mexican government wants to devote a vast portion of its resources to policing the borer, thus stealing more money from its taxpayers, and promoting more poverty, thus promoting more illegal immigration, there needs to be an effort to reform the economy of mexico, to make them see 'oh look, I dont need to go to America to make money; i can stay here.'
I understand that a nation must provide in order to be governable. But what you are essentially saying is that the government of Mexico has been allowed to artificially remain a failure because they dump the problems on Americans.
Mexico needs to survive or fall on its own merits. If they had more pressure on their side of the border to reform and spread the wealth a little more then maybe they would find a way to fix their issues. If not then they need to have a new government.
The answer is not to let the United States operate as a safety net for Mexico. The answer is to make the Mexican government start serving its people.
And what if the Mexican government simply will not do that?
Ultimately something has to be done even if the Mexican govt. will not do it themselves.
That is why I've said the fight against illegal immigration can't be won at the border.
Ultimately, the battle will have to be fought in Mexico City and other centers of power so to speak in Mexico.
We'd be best opening relations with them, constant dialog, and prime focus on the problems.
Others want a guest worker program to allow those here to remain but not become citizens.
Either way, both sides seem to agree that securing the U.S./Mexican border and not allowing so many illegal immigrants across is a good idea.
Major problem.
Roughly one milliion Mexicans come into the U.S. illegally every year. Just a couple of years ago, a Mexican official admitted that without the "safety valve" of large scale immigration to the U.S., Mexico would become "ungovernable" within two or three years. A buildup of three million young Mexicans without jobs in Mexico over the course of three years would mean chaos in Mexico.
It is entirely possible that the Mexican government would collapse entirely as hunger, despair, and eventually mass rioting and unrest spread.
And desperate Mexicans have only one direction to go.
A tidal wave of humanity from Mexico would flow toward the U.S./Mexican border. They would swamp all social and humanitarian services along the border and inevitably criminals and predators would be a part of that wave, preying on Mexican refugees and American citizens alike.
Eventually, the only solution left for the U.S. would be military invasion and occupation of Mexico. This would be a horrendous mess that would last for decades. This was one of the scenarios in the late Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger's book "The Next War".
So seal the border if you want. Kick out all illegals if you wish.
But know this:
The inevitable result of these actions will be the U.S. having to occupy and police Mexico with 300-500,000 troops at some point in the not so distant future.
Others want a guest worker program to allow those here to remain but not become citizens.
Either way, both sides seem to agree that securing the U.S./Mexican border and not allowing so many illegal immigrants across is a good idea.
Major problem.
Roughly one milliion Mexicans come into the U.S. illegally every year. Just a couple of years ago, a Mexican official admitted that without the "safety valve" of large scale immigration to the U.S., Mexico would become "ungovernable" within two or three years. A buildup of three million young Mexicans without jobs in Mexico over the course of three years would mean chaos in Mexico.
It is entirely possible that the Mexican government would collapse entirely as hunger, despair, and eventually mass rioting and unrest spread.
And desperate Mexicans have only one direction to go.
A tidal wave of humanity from Mexico would flow toward the U.S./Mexican border. They would swamp all social and humanitarian services along the border and inevitably criminals and predators would be a part of that wave, preying on Mexican refugees and American citizens alike.
Eventually, the only solution left for the U.S. would be military invasion and occupation of Mexico. This would be a horrendous mess that would last for decades. This was one of the scenarios in the late Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger's book "The Next War".
So seal the border if you want. Kick out all illegals if you wish.
But know this:
The inevitable result of these actions will be the U.S. having to occupy and police Mexico with 300-500,000 troops at some point in the not so distant future.
How about we police our own border. It wouldn't take 500,00 troops to do that effectively.
1) The U.S. effectively polices its own border.
2) The Mexican government collapses and chaos reigns.
3) U.S. border gets swamped by a herd of refugees that no amount of border control can stop.
How about we seal the border with our national guard. Then when the Mexican people no longer have the option to travel north for employment. They revolt and force there government to change its corrupt ways. Mexico is a very rich country. They have plenty of natural resources. Why do they remain a 3rd world country? I'll tell you why, because they don't have to reform there economy, they have the USA as there safety valve.
People of Mexico its time for a Revolution!
How come nobody besides me is blaming the out of control exponentially increasing population explosion in Mexico.......on the people who the Mexican people listen to.....The Catholic Church in Mexico?
Mexicans hump like Monkeys because it's a Macho society and a man's machismo is measured by how large his.....family is.
The Catholic Church is against condoms and the pill, and preganancy termination but they also have an overcrowded and horrific orphange system in Mexico that makes Dickens's poor houses look like a Sandals Resort.
The Pope needs to tell his children in Mexico to jerk it more and procreate less.
If we are going to take a Hard-nose stance against supposed terrorism, which I do not believe exists.. Then how can we leave the border open with Al Quackadacksidea running around singing Death to America?
Get real. If there were a real terrorist threat in this country, then Every blowhard for Iraq, would be Blowing hard for a border fence.
Fact, no argument needed, I'm tired of the BS people spew just to "feel" their side is right..
I'm not sure who mentioned it above, but the issue of legal immigration seems to be put on the back burner here.
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And because we're pro-legal immigration and against illegal immigration, I’m wondering where folks draw the line. If a million legal Mexicans traversed the border each year would we care?
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I've spoken to a few eastern European immigrants about all things American, and their position is that we have the more lax immigration policies when compared to most other nations. You don't have to swear allegiance to any crown or wait any extended period (though bureaucracy comes with its own time table, I’m saying its not entirely regulated). We ask that you know our history, and can grasp our general philosophy.
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When discussing illegal immigrants however, they circumvent all of this...for at least one generation. The one pervasive element of American Culture is that you can't avoid it when you're in the Third World, let alone in America.</ST1
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In listening to a political commendatory of the conservative persuasion, he said the big difference is that "People used to come to <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
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<st1:country-region w:st="on"></st1:country-region>My point is, as much culture as you can possibly bring, it becomes Americanized.
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I live on a street where the Italian Immigrants painted the double yellow line the colors of the Italian flag. Every Irish kid I know in this city has their family shield on their wall and the Irish flag tattooed on their body. <O
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Culture comes if you're legal or not, but the goal we have (or seem to have) of cultural immersion is only a generation away.
<O
Everone says that the mexicans are good for the economy but what about all of the money they take from the government such as WIC, milk is expensive and mexicans get it for free!
but more than half of the illegals are mexican so i worry about them more, and as an illegal sueing the police dept. it is just dumb on their part because they are not citizens and will just get thrown back to their country
Land mines.
Land mines.
open the borders
The public needs to grow up.
When you can explain to me why someone walking over a land mine they were fully aware was there is a death penalty.
the point is not whether the government can police their side. The point is that the only thing that keeps a people from disobeying the laws is if somehow the laws provide enough sustenance for the people as a whole.
You know this, I know this - you need only look to the Federalist Papers to know that the people who wrote the constitution acknowledged this fact. Some said that the new formed federal government should not have the ability to tax exports, only imports; and rightly so, had this been adopted, it would have promoted a 'culture of smuggling' where the law had essentially no effect on the day to day lives of people.
The governing force of America is not the government; it is the markets, that control the interactions between the people. How does the government promote change? Through taxes; it makes one option more profitable then the other. Unless, of course, you'd have them govern through the military, in which case the government ceases to be a government by the people for the people, and becomes the government of America.
But I have digressed.
Unless the mexican government wants to devote a vast portion of its resources to policing the borer, thus stealing more money from its taxpayers, and promoting more poverty, thus promoting more illegal immigration, there needs to be an effort to reform the economy of mexico, to make them see 'oh look, I dont need to go to America to make money; i can stay here.'
Basically they RELY on this safety valve because making their own country work, for everyone, would be a lot of hard work and would actually be disadvantageous to the ruling elite there.
We tolerate this laissez-faire immigration policy. Why? Markets are one reason, but as China and India become more competitive in the global marketplace this will no longer be true. Labor intensive business models will eventually fail or yield to more innovative, less costly, and less labor intensive practices. For more on this you might want to look at the original braceros program and Heinz Ketchup company. Heinz (and others) argued that they'd go under if they didn't have illegals to pick tomatoes in the fields. When the program ended they simply developed a heartier tomato and a mechanical picking device. Problem solved and COSTS dropped.
The other reason we tolerate the illegals is because we are perpetuating an old cold war policy. We didn't want a destabilized Mexico falling victim to the "red peril", so we allowed the de-facto deportation of their troublemakers to the US (those who want to earn more money and are unhappy with their government). Thus the Mexican government has escaped TRUE reform. It's time to end that practice. We should be encouraging Mexico to fix its own problems rather than subsidizing their mis-government.
Sealing the border may lead to the collapse of Mexico. Not sealing the border will lead to ever higher grade civil war within the US with the use of tactical nukes and possibly strategic warheads by no later than 2020.
Land mines.
LMAO!!!
LMAO!!!
Why am I not surprised?
When the Minutemen began watching the borders, Mexico began telling invades where and where not to cross.
Mexico published a "How to Invade the US and Get Away With It" handbook.
When the Minutemen began watching the borders, Mexico began telling invades where and where not to cross.
Mexico published a "How to Invade the US and Get Away With It" handbook.
Especially with landmines.
Not all the illegal immigrants are Mexican. Many are from Central America, and belong to some serious gangs there. They come to the U.S. to smuggle drugs, guns, and -- yes -- terrorists. It's not only poor Mexican peons looking for work who are coming into this country. THAT is why we need to crack down on illegal immigration. If a U.S. citizen commits an "illegal" act, he/she is punished for it -- not rewarded. So explain to me why foreigners can commit crimes and get away with it. Why this concept is so difficult for our politicians to grasp is beyond me.
Oh, I forgot. The Democraps want more voters.
Oh, I forgot. The Democraps want more voters.
i dunno, i have alot of mixed emotions about the mexico issue, specially being here in texas,......and while i think illegal immigration is should be stopped, i've also made friends with my share of illegal immigrants over my 24 years,....and most of them are good people, just tryin to feed their families, so its hard for me condem them,........
and waitin for mexico to fix the problem is a pipe dream,...they dont wann fix it, they aint gonna fix it,.....this is the world we live in and our only choice is to make the best of it,.......
i do, however think its silly to say 'lets just open the damn borders',.......i cant imagine the chaos that would ensue,......