Was Lincoln wrong? - Page 2

dzustaparadox · 08-23-2007, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

When Lincoln fought a war over the South's seccession, he asserted that the South did not have a right to secede from the Union. I beleived this for a long time. But recently, my sympathies have shifted towards the Confederate States. I now beleive that the South had a right to secede. Here's an interesting article I found on the subject:Do States Have a Right of Secession? by Walter Williams -- Capitalism Magazine

I'm not going to look it up but I believe the constitution states that any State has a "right" to secede.

Zarathustra · 08-24-2007, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzustaparadox

But the US is not a "democracy".

Correct, it's a Constitutional Republic. Democracy is just a blanket term people use to describe societies with freedom of speech, religion, press, etc.

Ausinus · 08-24-2007, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Correct, it's a Constitutional Republic. Democracy is just a blanket term people use to describe societies with freedom of speech, religion, press, etc.

Its more like a Constitutional Federal Republic.

Burning Giraffe · 08-24-2007, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

When Lincoln fought a war over the South's seccession, he asserted that the South did not have a right to secede from the Union. I beleived this for a long time. But recently, my sympathies have shifted towards the Confederate States. I now beleive that the South had a right to secede. Here's an interesting article I found on the subject:Do States Have a Right of Secession? by Walter Williams -- Capitalism Magazine

My father and I argue over this very subject at least twice a year. Long before the civil war, I believe it was President Van Buren's administration, but massive economic controls and regulations were placed on the northern industrial economies. Massachusetts spent a great deal of effort trying to prove that they had a right to secede.

Lincoln was an idealist. The ideal was a federal America, united under one government, one God, one system of laws, one language, one people. He didn't care how many people had to die in order to see his dream live.

So, if you believe in Federalist power and politics, if you believe that we are better off because the federal government controls the States, then Lincoln was the greatest president ever. He had the courage to fight for what was right!

If you believe the federal government causes more harm the good, then you have to look at Lincoln as the foundation of an evil. Then you've got to look at FDR, Wilson, Johnson, Carter, Bush I, Clinton, and W. Bush. You've got to look at Guiliani and Senator Hillary Clinton and decide if this is want you want: Overtly dominant federalism.

Desidude666 · 08-24-2007, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzustaparadox

But the US is not a "democracy".

Then what is it?

Desidude666 · 08-24-2007, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Correct, it's a Constitutional Republic. Democracy is just a blanket term people use to describe societies with freedom of speech, religion, press, etc.

So how different is it from a constitutional republic? By such, you elect your own leaders at state and federal level. You also have a justice system that is democratic (judiciary) and your constitution bases itself on the freedom that is what we term democracy today.

That is how the state department terms the US today, the US State Department - a democracy mate.

Zarathustra · 08-24-2007, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desidude666

So how different is it from a constitutional republic? By such, you elect your own leaders at state and federal level. You also have a justice system that is democratic (judiciary) and your constitution bases itself on the freedom that is what we term democracy today.

That is how the state department terms the US today, the US State Department - a democracy mate.

A democracy is where people vote on every single action that the country does.

Desidude666 · 08-24-2007, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

A democracy is where people vote on every single action that the country does.

Congress does so mate. Anyhow, if general average tomy needs to decide on bills then - no democracy exists, anywhere in the world!

Zarathustra · 08-24-2007, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desidude666

Congress does so mate. Anyhow, if general average tomy needs to decide on bills then - no democracy exists, anywhere in the world!

Exactly. That's Congress. They represent the people but they are not The People. That makes this a republic, in which elected representatives represent the people.

Desidude666 · 08-24-2007, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Exactly. That's Congress. They represent the people but they are not The People. That makes this a republic, in which elected representatives represent the people.

So technically, a democracy doesn't exist. Anywhere on Earth....? This is a system of representation. It's not like the congressmen are there for life. They do not deliver on promises and them don't get re-elected.