taxes are the price we pay to live in a civil society

lakeman · 09-07-2007, 11:53 PM

Here is essay I thought was worth reading:

Quote:

It was Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr., a popular justice of the US Supreme Court, who once stated that "taxes are the price we pay to live in a civil society." It is these twelve words, perhaps more than any others spoken by this brilliant man, that have become indelibly woven into modern American culture.
Almost every politician that raises taxes today, does so, quoting the words of Justice Holmes. An extension of the arms, palms turned upward, a shrug of the shoulders and those famous twelve words, have kept more than a few politicians from being skinned. What is ironic, is that the level of tax that Holmes and other Americans paid when this statement was first made has absolutely no relationship to the tax rates that Americans are burdened by today.
Holmes was born in 1841. He served in the Civil War, eventually becoming a colonel in the Union Army. He was appointed to the Massachusetts Supreme Court in 1899. His appointment to the US Supreme Court came in 1902. It was in 1904 that he made his famous statement about taxes being the price we pay to live in a civil society.
In a recent report on taxation in America, David Foster of the Washington-based Tax Foundation says, "since 1900, government has [in real terms] multiplied 29 times over the amount it needs per person to provide Justice Holmes civilized society." The calculations used to determine the actual comparisons take the combined total of all taxes, including income, social security, corporate, property, sales, etc. and come up with a per person figure. Each year's figures are then converted to 1998 dollars, which makes an actual comparison relatively simple.
Tax Freedom Day is the day when a citizen has earned enough money to pay all of his or her taxes. It assumes that all the money earned up until that time is turned over to the government. The year that Holmes was appointed to the US Supreme Court, Tax Freedom Day fell on January 31st. If each American today paid a total of $366 per year in taxes to all levels of government, that is proportionately the same amount of tax paid by Americans at that time. It stayed that way until about 1917. Annual federal taxes were an average of $119 per person (current dollars). State and local taxes combined were $247 (current dollars). Men like Holmes viewed this contribution as the price they had to pay to live in a civil society. And their society was civil. Some would even argue that it was more civil than things are today.
In stark contrast to the $366 (current dollars) tax bill paid by Americans when Holmes made his famous quote, the three levels of government now collect $9,939 per year for every man, woman, and child in the country. The federal government takes in $6,810 while state and local governments collect $3,129.
What it all means, is that Americans are now spending more on federal taxes alone than on any other budgetary item, including housing, health and medical care, food, transportation or recreation. This year Tax Freedom Day fell on May 10th. And, each year it is moving further down the calendar.
There is no doubt that in principle, taxes are the price that we have to pay to live in a civil society. And, when taxes were the equivalent of $366 (current dollars) per year, society was civil. So, let's ask ourselves, "now that we have government that in real terms costs 29 times more, do we have a society that is 29 times more civil? And, is it fair to apply the words of Justice Holmes, spoken in 1904, to our current levels of taxation?"
Few would argue that such is the case.

Kevin Avram
Canadian Conservative Forum - Requested Essay

So how much is the right amount to pay for a civil society?

johnflesh · 09-08-2007, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakeman

So how much is the right amount to pay for a civil society?

Interesting article and this is some information I actually just learned of not to long ago. Your question isn't an easy one to answer since civility is more or less in the eye of the beholder, especially lately and increasingly so as time goes on. I would be one to argue about the current level of civility in this country first and foremost. With all that is currently going on it is impossible to see the big picture in each of it's pieces and thus would continue the arguement forever... much like is currently going on.

For the money I spend in taxes, I don't see the return that I'd hope to see and it makes me curious and at times fearful of my own future and that of my children. There is no guarantee in anything especially the investments that you are forced to make such as taxes, but that just lends to the fact there is more clean up needed within this system before we can place an actual value on it, for as it is, there is not very much value on it in my mind.

mdmx96 · 09-08-2007, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakeman

Here is essay I thought was worth reading:

So how much is the right amount to pay for a civil society?

Well, considering that I have already paid almost $13,000 in taxes this year, I would have to say that I have paid too much. Add in the government mandated insurance premiums that I have to cough up also, and I could have almost paid for the new car that I just bought. I would gladly pay $366 a MONTH to get these monkeys off of my back.

BTW, it is hard to be "civil" when the government is stealing so much of my money.