Distressed American

There are certain things in society that should NEVER be treated as "for profit" businesses. They are the core and vital things that a society needs to be healthy and productive. They should be available to all citizens without regard to their wealth or status.

Those things would include:

• education
• healthcare
• vital infrastructure

These are not things that should only be available to those that can pay the highest rates private corporations can charge. They are things that should be considered basic rights of citizenship.

Profit motive is all about giving people the smallest amount of a good or service that they can while extracting the highest rates possible for them. By its very nature profit motive excludes those that are too poor to pay the highest rates that "the market will bear". By its very nature, it means that the rich will have access while the poor will be excluded.

That is the main reason our healthcare system is so badly failing us. Those that talk of privatizing our public schools are deluded into thinking that we would see competition create better education for all. That is no more true than it has been for our healthcare system. It would result in great educations for the rich and none or very poor educations for the poor.

The same is true for notions of privitizing vital infrastructure like roads and bridges. Access to them would be restricted tho those that could pay. They would be built using the cheapest methods possible while the highest tolls possible would be charged.

There are vital things that are required for society to prosper. Access to them should be guaranteed, not rationed based on socioeconomic status. The only way to guarantee that access is to have them be the domain of the government, taxes and law. They should be guaranteed public services. Not privlidges available only to those tha can pay the inflated rates charged by private firms.

Privitization works fine for things that are not vital needs. Home electronics for example. It is a disaster in the realm of things that all people NEED and which society significantly benefits from as a whole.

Advertising

Zarathustra

The profit motive encourages people to improve themselves. Private Schools have been known to be fantastically successful in places that middle schools havent, such as inner cities.

So I hope we're all proud of ourselves, sacrificing soldiers for a country that would send a man to prision for throwing shoes.
- Sparta on Iraq


The question in my mind is how many additional American casualties is Saddam worth? And the answer is not very damned many.

~Dick Cheney

"You do not know what genocide is, do you? It means the irradication of a race to obliviation through death."
- Tick

Distressed American

Allow me to simply repost what I just wrote on that other thread as you still do not seem to get it. Your free market dogma does not hold water when applied to vital services in society.

"That assumes that there are ample private schools everywhere to create this copmpetition of which you speak. That would not be the case.

In practice, schools would only be built where they are profitable. Rich areas may have lots of schools and therefore choice. Poor communities would not have a customer base large enough to support multiple schools or possibly any schools which would generate enough profit to make them woth investing in. There would be no competition. Those folks would have to settle for whatever they could get.

Public schools are built in every community to serve the needs of the population without regard to how much money they can generate byu being there. Private schools would not be.

Privitization assures good education (high investment) for the wealthy and terrible (lowest investment) or non-existent schools.

You need to learn that what you believe is nothing more than corporation and profit driven propaganda. It is not about what is good for society. It is about what is best for those that will rake in profits. Profit motive and social good are two very different things and they should never be falsely conflated.

In reality "for profit" means providing the least amount of service for the highest rates that can be charged. In terns of vital stuff like education, it will never meet the needs of the poor. Only the rich will be profitable customers.

The free market has no role in things which are vital social rights and needs. It will never assure that ALL have good access. In fact it assures just the opposite."

Zarathustra

I answered this on the other thread.

So I hope we're all proud of ourselves, sacrificing soldiers for a country that would send a man to prision for throwing shoes.
- Sparta on Iraq


The question in my mind is how many additional American casualties is Saddam worth? And the answer is not very damned many.

~Dick Cheney

"You do not know what genocide is, do you? It means the irradication of a race to obliviation through death."
- Tick

Ausinus

And I refuted it. Public Infrastructure has limited entry for entrepreneurs and has equity issues as well. QED.

Zarathustra

Of course public infrastructure has limited entry for entrepeneurs; it's public. If you privatise it, it will attract investment and drastically improve the quality of education. It's positive effects have been documented in the inner cities.

So I hope we're all proud of ourselves, sacrificing soldiers for a country that would send a man to prision for throwing shoes.
- Sparta on Iraq


The question in my mind is how many additional American casualties is Saddam worth? And the answer is not very damned many.

~Dick Cheney

"You do not know what genocide is, do you? It means the irradication of a race to obliviation through death."
- Tick

Ausinus

Inner cities are full of wealthy clients - this is basic common sense. You have demonstrated our point for us.

Zarathustra

Bzzt, wrong again. You obviously have never heard of Harlem Prep.

So I hope we're all proud of ourselves, sacrificing soldiers for a country that would send a man to prision for throwing shoes.
- Sparta on Iraq


The question in my mind is how many additional American casualties is Saddam worth? And the answer is not very damned many.

~Dick Cheney

"You do not know what genocide is, do you? It means the irradication of a race to obliviation through death."
- Tick

Distressed American

Your limited case examples of a few private schools in a public system do not scale up to an entire educational system. There is nothing about them that provides any argument for private schools meeting the needs of ALL children when they are the only option. They were put in areas where there was a clear and established customer base. They do not show anything about the downside of limited customer base areas or servicde to the folks thar cannot pay for "good schools" (read costly).

For profit means offering the least service possible for the highest prices that can be extracted.

That has been PROVEN by the for profit healthcare system. That IS a systemwide analogy that would be very similar to education. Poor people do not have insurance. Those that do, still get the least care that the companies can find a way to give as it keeps the profits high. That system is a disaster. It is totally failing to meet the needs of ALL in society.

Privitized education systemwide would act in a similarly disasrterous manner as the profit motive would effect it just the same way.

What you propose is nothing but false dogma. It would not work in the real world at a system wide level. That is amply demonstrated by the failure that is our healthcare system.

Services that are NEEDS and not optional should never be made for profit. All of the incentive under such schmemes is to provide the least service for the highest cost that can be extracted. That hurts the poor and the "markets" with a limited "customer" base.

Zarathustra

Well, it is certainly obvious that the public school system does not meet the needs of all children. And what do you mean put in area where there was an established customer base? Harlem Prep was started by parents who realised that the public school system was clearly not working for their children and decided to do something about it.

I'm not very knowledgeable of the health care problem in this country. So I can't really debate with you about that.

So I hope we're all proud of ourselves, sacrificing soldiers for a country that would send a man to prision for throwing shoes.
- Sparta on Iraq


The question in my mind is how many additional American casualties is Saddam worth? And the answer is not very damned many.

~Dick Cheney

"You do not know what genocide is, do you? It means the irradication of a race to obliviation through death."
- Tick