The Internet - Page 2

splansing · 10-24-2007, 10:42 AM

It seems to me, though, that there is a fair number of people who do blog that don't think very clearly sometimes. This suggests to me that they are working on it. And I can only imagine that over time their thinking will be sharpened by the experience as mine has been. So while I don't see it as a sudden, universal impact, I do believe that it will be felt. And over time, as individuals take their sharpened critical minds out into their local worlds and unleash them on their buddies, they might help to redefine the way people think in their areas.

I don't think it is a substitute for some early guidance by skilled teachers, by any means. But that has its limitations, too. If a person doesn't practice what they are taught in English class or history class, they will lose it.

Desidude666 · 11-27-2007, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splansing

Here is something I have been pondering for a while.

I know that reading and posting on this board has sharpened my thinking. A kind of natural selection dominates the Internet, and if you post something really dumb, there is always somebody to straighten you out. And so I find I am less inclined to operate unconsciously, according to assumptions. And I find I am more able to discern the truth. I am more reluctant to believe something that sounds like it is too bad or too good to be true. I am better able to find the loose thread to pull when I hear something that sounds too good or too bad to be true, and cut through the BS.

I just wonder if other people have the same experience. I would expect a lot of people do.

In a nutshell, I think that the Internet, unlike anything in history, will actually have the long-term effect of teaching humanity to think critically. Imagine what that would mean for the world? The Internet may end up being the single most important human creation so far, and possibly for thousands of years, enabling humanity to take another step out of the Dark Ages, enlightening people around the world and reducing the impact that superstition and prejudice and ignorance have on our societies. A huge shift in the entire philosophy of humanity. If that is true, the Internet would rank alongside things like the printing press and even the development of writing itself among human developments.

Typically I hear much more mundane assessments of the value of the Internet...it enables commerce, etc. But I think there may be a much more profound impact over the next few generations.

Convenience. It's just too convenient to know, it has it's bad too. Information is too liquid, losing both value and importance in this case.

johnflesh · 11-27-2007, 09:16 AM

Splansing takes me up by making me feel as if we are doing something revolutionary.

And Sparta takes me down because we are troglodytes.

Thanks, I guess.

:P

Guyker · 11-28-2007, 12:49 AM

My experience has been that, like Splansing, I examine what I say and how I say it at least in part expecting to have to defend it in a forum, and that makes my thought process and presentation more coherent and sharper, and probably more creative. Another part of the breakthrough is that the entire world can be accessed by one individual, his thoughts, his expression, and his information, and he can glean ideas from all over. But just like TV is for a mass media, alot of shlock is out there in the internet, and the worthwhile stuff is often buried in the overwhelming volume. And I sometimes get nervous about the way meanings shift in the internet: how does "virtual reality" come to mean "artificial"?

Acebass · 11-28-2007, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splansing

Here is something I have been pondering for a while.

I know that reading and posting on this board has sharpened my thinking. A kind of natural selection dominates the Internet, and if you post something really dumb, there is always somebody to straighten you out. And so I find I am less inclined to operate unconsciously, according to assumptions. And I find I am more able to discern the truth. I am more reluctant to believe something that sounds like it is too bad or too good to be true. I am better able to find the loose thread to pull when I hear something that sounds too good or too bad to be true, and cut through the BS.

I just wonder if other people have the same experience. I would expect a lot of people do.

In a nutshell, I think that the Internet, unlike anything in history, will actually have the long-term effect of teaching humanity to think critically. Imagine what that would mean for the world? The Internet may end up being the single most important human creation so far, and possibly for thousands of years, enabling humanity to take another step out of the Dark Ages, enlightening people around the world and reducing the impact that superstition and prejudice and ignorance have on our societies. A huge shift in the entire philosophy of humanity. If that is true, the Internet would rank alongside things like the printing press and even the development of writing itself among human developments.

Typically I hear much more mundane assessments of the value of the Internet...it enables commerce, etc. But I think there may be a much more profound impact over the next few generations.

I tend to agree with you for the most part. If you learn to use key words and search engines you will never be lied to again.
Thats why I try and back everything up with a story and a link and when I post a story it's generally because I agree with the author. If not I'll leave a comment and my thinking...

Acebass · 11-28-2007, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desidude666

Convenience. It's just too convenient to know, it has it's bad too. Information is too liquid, losing both value and importance in this case.

Just means you have to work harder for the answer...

Desidude666 · 11-28-2007, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acebass

Just means you have to work harder for the answer...

If it really is all that worth it of course.

Acebass · 11-29-2007, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desidude666

If it really is all that worth it of course.

true, but if beauty is in the eye of the beholder then so is worth...

splansing · 11-29-2007, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guyker

But just like TV is for a mass media, alot of shlock is out there in the internet, and the worthwhile stuff is often buried in the overwhelming volume.

Over time, I think that is exactly what pushes a person towards more critical thinking. When you read, "Hillary Clinton denounces gays as evil, and says America should be an all-white nation," you should reflexively think, "Gee...I'll bet that's horseshit," and spend the 5 minutes to go and confirm that it is. And if you don't have that 5 minutes, you'll still walk away thinking, "I don't know for sure, but I'll bet that's horseshit..." And of course, it is horseshit. 99% of the time you read something that is too good or too bad or too sensational to be true, it isn't true. It's either patently false, or some sort of gross distortion of a much less fantastic reality.

The flood of nonsense causes people to become a bit more discriminating. Eventually, people tire of reading stupid things on the internet, repeating them as if they are known facts, and having somebody else come along and say, "What are you talking about? That is completely wrong," and illustrating the truth very plainly. People don't like looking like fools.

Guyker · 11-29-2007, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splansing

Over time, I think that is exactly what pushes a person towards more critical thinking. When you read, "Hillary Clinton denounces gays as evil, and says America should be an all-white nation," you should reflexively think, "Gee...I'll bet that's horseshit," and spend the 5 minutes to go and confirm that it is. And if you don't have that 5 minutes, you'll still walk away thinking, "I don't know for sure, but I'll bet that's horseshit..." And of course, it is horseshit. 99% of the time you read something that is too good or too bad or too sensational to be true, it isn't true. It's either patently false, or some sort of gross distortion of a much less fantastic reality.

The flood of nonsense causes people to become a bit more discriminating. Eventually, people tire of reading stupid things on the internet, repeating them as if they are known facts, and having somebody else come along and say, "What are you talking about? That is completely wrong," and illustrating the truth very plainly. People don't like looking like fools.

A part of me would feel very comfortable agreeing with you here, or would like to. But, as I have toured thru this and other forums, it is clear that there is a very vocal, very misinformed, very closed-minded group of posters who almost gleefully spin misinformation about particular subjects, working the internet in support of ignorance, I guess. They link to spurious info, spout invective, spin arguments of tenuous logic at best, and regularly bait opposing ideologies into inane exchanges. They sometimes may have a depth of information and knowledge about a subject that surprises you, because their grasp of concept, meaning, context, nuance, or distinction is stultifying. From what I can tell, they have no objection to appearing as fools. These guys scare me, because I think their work bubbles up else- where. My sister doesn't use any forum for instance, but she is always forwarding these emails to me about illegal aliens getting social security being the reason we have a problem with funding, and so on. Stuff that really wouldn't stand up in the light of full examination, but for too many people "feels" true, or may even have a dab of truth smothered in innuendo. It generates a residue of polarization all too easily, too anonomously, and rapidly. Just as books have spread knowledge and enlightenment, they have spread prejudice, hate, ignorance. I love books, but they are very human tools, and are used to perform human vices and virtues. So to the Internet.

So while the powers of the Jedi are sharpened in the Forums, so to are those of the dark side.