Zarathustra

Okay, then I say either make it voluntary or abolish it.

So I hope we're all proud of ourselves, sacrificing soldiers for a country that would send a man to prision for throwing shoes.
- Sparta on Iraq


The question in my mind is how many additional American casualties is Saddam worth? And the answer is not very damned many.

~Dick Cheney

"You do not know what genocide is, do you? It means the irradication of a race to obliviation through death."
- Tick

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mjollnir

LOL yeah and HUGE tax rates!

The government needs to be out of the private sector. Once the government gets involved with the private sector, corruption becomes the norm. You have corporation A who is regulated by the government. So coporation A wants to cut some corners...but there are regulation issues to deal with. So Corporation A greases the palm of whatever bureaucracy that is regulating them and viola.....corruption. Oh wait....that's part of the status quo and I forgot, you do not know what I mean about that!!!!

NO ONE will stone ANYONE until I blow this whistle. Even, and I want to make this perfectly clear, even if they DO say Jehovah!!!

Pragmatist

Because if you and many others opt out then the money will not be there for those who have been spending their lifetimes contributing to it. Many survive on their SS checks and without it, what are they going to do.

I don't really give a shit about FDR and what he may have intended. Social Security allows many to survive and pay the bills, without it they would be relying on some form of welfare provided by the state, that you pay for.

You are lucky enough to be a citizen in a country where the sky is the limit. You play your cards right and work hard and you can become a millionaire. You can't do that in most countries so I think you should count your blessings, pay that 7+% tax, and quit your stingy selfish bitching. That or move the fuck out, see what your chances are of becoming successful someplace else.

Blueneck

I think unless taxes are voluntary, giving public funds to private companies is theft. Why should my tax money go to shareholders who may not even be US citizens?

I don't just believe in separation of church and state, but separation of commerce and state.

Zarathustra

Starve? It's really not my problem. The money I make should stay with me unless I decide otherwise.

Social Security is welfare.

Bla, bla,bla "your selfish", bla, bla, bla.

I was born here. Most other countries are much worse than this, so no, I'm staying right here. Get over yourself and stop calling people selfish because they don't like giving to charity at the point of a gun.

I don't buy into that "love it or leave it" bullshit.


p.s. You never did admit you were wrong about John Edwards wanting to eliminate poverty.

So I hope we're all proud of ourselves, sacrificing soldiers for a country that would send a man to prision for throwing shoes.
- Sparta on Iraq


The question in my mind is how many additional American casualties is Saddam worth? And the answer is not very damned many.

~Dick Cheney

"You do not know what genocide is, do you? It means the irradication of a race to obliviation through death."
- Tick

Zarathustra

If that is true, then you must beleive in no regulations on bussiness, correct? If the state regulates commerce, then commerce and the state are connected to one-another.

So I hope we're all proud of ourselves, sacrificing soldiers for a country that would send a man to prision for throwing shoes.
- Sparta on Iraq


The question in my mind is how many additional American casualties is Saddam worth? And the answer is not very damned many.

~Dick Cheney

"You do not know what genocide is, do you? It means the irradication of a race to obliviation through death."
- Tick

Luigi

Social security is far from welfare. You get what you put in in SS, in welfare you get what other people payin (Unless of course you are the rare good, honest, hard working person fallen on temporary hardtimes). After you have a few years of work under your belt, you get a letter from SSA showing how much you have paid in and various payouts you are entitled to, depending on age, disability, length of time you will continue paying in, etc.

For instance, I am entitled to $1100 a month, if I stop working and paying in now, and don't collect until I'm 65. If I become disabled tomorrow, I get about $650 a month, starting immediately, as long as I live, adjusted for the times.

When I started working fulltime I was 16, and worked part time since I was 14, so my numbers may be a little skewed at my age. You can bet at 14 I wasn't thinking of my retirement, and I for one am glad to have a garunteed return on my initial investment, no matter what I do or what happens, I have a modest safety net built into my life at 26.

I'm just now aware of people actually having to support themselves in old age, and starting to get a gameplan together beyond social security, which is low risk, low return, and so is good as a fallback if you plan to take risks. I don't know anyone beyond my older brother (Who is insane) who actually started saving in their teens, without being forced to.

I for one am happy to have been forced in my youth into saving for retirement, I would spent the money on drugs and porn long ago and had naught to show for.

As for making it optional, personally I would have opted out from day one and not thought about retirement until now. I understand people shouldn't be forced to invest and save, but I think it makes more sense to have people pay-in mandatory until 18 or something, though that is very arguable. I guess I'm glad I was saved from myself by the government, and have something to show for it.

Hall of shame 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Spivey
Yeah im a bad man when they call me a sheepfucker..

Originally Posted by Zaragrunudgeyon
Whatever you do, don't listen to scientists. Trust your own instincts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton3
Why do people get all huffy about fighting for oil?

Colin

HOLY SHIT TAXES! NOT TAXES AND PUBLIC GOODS!

If that assumption was inherently true: How come some of the most regulated and mixed capitalist economies on the planet are considered the least corrupt and fair?

(I.e. Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Canada, Japan, Ireland, Germany etc)

Just because there is regulation and a relationship between the private sector and the public sector doesn't automatically denote rampant corruption. That's a foolish assumption and ignores the usefulness of maximizing transparency, monitoring structures and checks on corruption within liberal democratic societies.

Blueneck

Good point. I'm just sick of the waste fraud and abuse that happens when you get the government outsourcing every little thing to corporations. What would you do to stop it?

For example, in the military, there used to be something called "KP", now Halliburton supplies prepackaged meals, supposedly because it's more efficient. The troops are eating "Budget Gourmet" TV dinners and our tax dollars are paying twice the price of what this would cost if the government just bought the meals direct or made the meals themselves. And you can bet the generals aren't eating the same shit as everybody else.

I'd also be happy to see small businesses not be taxed at all.

What I really don't want is large businesses who's main customer is the government. It's not good for the government, and I don't think it's good for the companies either.

Blueneck

Well if you eliminate Social Security, you will be competing with a much larger employment pool when you try to get your first job. Unless you intend to let your parents support you all the way through college.