More than Wal-Mart - Page 6

Wil · 01-17-2007, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnotherConservative

thank you, I agree with everything except unions, they suck.

Why unions are good, more or less:

Health care, vacation pay, good salary, protection from capricious firings, seniority systems, pension plans that are portable and can't be raided by a downturn of the company.

It gives a voice to the little people so that they aren't totally at the mercy of the business. It backs worker rights when it comes to overtime and breaks. It also leads to a more stable work force with people who know their jobs backward and forwards. That experience helps to save the employer money too.

Without them the power goes to the employer with no recourse to the worker. That may be alright if you have a good employer, or it could be a nightmare if you have a bad one. Its good for both sides to come together from a position of strength, and know what to expect in the workplace.

Ausinus · 01-17-2007, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnotherConservative

heres a cookie for being a good boy and making sure that Australia doesn't get any increased foreign business. $13 dollars a friggin hour MINIMUM! holy hell, that's high, no wonder Aussies don't have a good industrial sector built up.

Well the reason for such a high min. wage is because the Unions are the biggest supporters of the Labor Party and vice versa.

Plus industry was never our strong point, even when they had Laissez Faire policies in place. We have pretty much always depended on commodity exports and the service sector.

Freedom for All · 01-17-2007, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wil

Why unions are good, more or less:

Health care, vacation pay, good salary, protection from capricious firings, seniority systems, pension plans that are portable and can't be raided by a downturn of the company.

Health care...should be paid for by the individual.

Vacation pay...should be determined by agreement between the worker and the employer...as it is with non-union companies.

Good salary...should be totally dependent on how good you are, not how many goons you have.

Capricious firings...employers always want to fire productive workers.

so WTF is a capricious firing?

Seniority systems...the worst abuse of the union system that exists. People should be retained by the virtue of their worth to their employer, not simply because they've been around longest.

Portable Pension Plans - it's called "save your own money in your own account by yourself". The government takes 15.4% of your wages to tuck into a ponzi-scheme pension plan. Just imagine what you could have done with all that money if you'd been allowed to keep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wil

It gives a voice to the little people so that they aren't totally at the mercy of the business. It backs worker rights when it comes to overtime and breaks.

What "rights"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wil

It also leads to a more stable work force with people who know their jobs backward and forwards.

I thought you were talking about unions. Union labor in America is recognized as shoddy by almost everyone not blinded by unionist propaganda.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wil

Without them the power goes to the employer with no recourse to the worker.

Just say "No". Employers don't have much to do when their employees quit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wil

Its good for both sides to come together from a position of strength, and know what to expect in the workplace.

Certainly. Employers don't want to spend the extra money training newbies for skilled positions if they don't have to. Then again striking former employees don't have any moral claim to their old jobs, if they get replaced during the strike. Nor do they have any moral right to prevent the businessman from running his business without them.

Take away the monopoly on violence the courts have granted the unions, and things will be far more equitable.

Wil · 01-17-2007, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freedom for All

Health care...should be paid for by the individual.

Vacation pay...should be determined by agreement between the worker and the employer...as it is with non-union companies.

Good salary...should be totally dependent on how good you are, not how many goons you have.

Capricious firings...employers always want to fire productive workers.

so WTF is a capricious firing?

Seniority systems...the worst abuse of the union system that exists. People should be retained by the virtue of their worth to their employer, not simply because they've been around longest.

Portable Pension Plans - it's called "save your own money in your own account by yourself". The government takes 15.4% of your wages to tuck into a ponzi-scheme pension plan. Just imagine what you could have done with all that money if you'd been allowed to keep.

What "rights"?

I thought you were talking about unions. Union labor in America is recognized as shoddy by almost everyone not blinded by unionist propaganda.

Just say "No". Employers don't have much to do when their employees quit.

Certainly. Employers don't want to spend the extra money training newbies for skilled positions if they don't have to. Then again striking former employees don't have any moral claim to their old jobs, if they get replaced during the strike. Nor do they have any moral right to prevent the businessman from running his business without them.

Take away the monopoly on violence the courts have granted the unions, and things will be far more equitable.

Okay, so you're a hardcore republican. Got it.

Freedom for All · 01-17-2007, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wil

Okay, so you're a hardcore republican. Got it.

Am I? Really? Are you so insecure in your own arguments that you need to place labels on people and then argue against the label?

Is there any philosophy out there that recognizes that the businessman is supposed to be as free under the law as anyone else?

What do you think you're doing to his freedoms when you strangle his business with busy-body law?

OldCon · 01-21-2007, 03:06 PM

You think Unions are so great? Talk to a G.M. employee who lost his job because the Union broke the company!
Unions have outlived their usefulness. With all the labor laws on the books, they are now an albatross on commerce.

AnotherConservative · 01-25-2007, 04:45 PM

Unions just hurt companies, create job scarcity, and allow worthless people, (Union Goons) to make money off of breaking a company and making sure NO ONE has a job.