chu chu rocket

(Apologize for the long post, but I had to make the arguments step-by-step, to ensure comprehension)

I think in the debate on what healthcare is the best, a lot of you seem to forget the crucial question; the best for whom?

It seems evident to me that the interests in the population are very heterogeneous. If you are a surgeon, you would be better off in a system where you are paid more. If you have stocks in a pharmaceutical company, you would be better with a system where the pharmaceutical companies make more money, which is clearly in the U.S.

From a patient's perspective, it is the question of wanting the best and fastest care available, or wanting a particular compromise between affordability and quality.

The changes in quality depends on what type of patient you are, though.
If you need treatment for a simple non-resistant staph infection, every physician on the planet could give you a tray of an antistaphylococcal penicillin like flucloxacillin. As a patient, you would be a lot better off in a system where you didn't have to pay much to visit the doc when you have a simple staph infection.

Now say you have something special, say you are one of 20 per million in the states with progressive systemic sclerosis. Well, tough deal, you ain't gonna find a doctor in any system who can rid you of your disease. You might find the most ingenious doctors who can find a cure in a private system, but once they find it, it will become available to ALL systems.

Perhaps from a patients view, the most beneficial part of private health care is the surgery. In surgery as well, you have a lot of "staph infections," easy stuff that any surgeon could do, without big difference in mortality rates. If anything, complications might be more dependent on central hygiene routines than the steady hand of a surgeon. But in cancers, surgery often is the only cure. And cancer is the second most common cause of death in the states. The older we get, the more likely it is that you will suffer from cancer.

Yeah, so OK, a private healthcare system can be good for you or bad, depending on your condition and how rich you are. But here comes the important point: a private healthcare system doesn't seem to have the same drive to make services cheaper as e.g an online store selling computer parts. In fact; the healthcare system is a system in which you could get more healthcare out of a governmental solution, at least I think so. Here is how:

People pretty much choose to become doctors if they can. Even people with special talents in maths, physics, etc often choose to become doctors due to the status of the profession. There are tons of people not being admitted to med school. This means that there are many people who would still want to be doctors even if the salary is bad. Because of the status, we can lower the salary enormously!! Do you seriously believe that once the Norwegian, Austrian, Italian, Spanish etc med students are finished, that they can just choose to go to the U.S? It ain't that simple, and people aren't mobile.

Consequently, a strong government should be able to whip their doctors around like slaves, working for minimum wages. My guess is that the reason this is not the case today, is because politicians fear to be held accountable for not putting enough emphasis on health. The doctors' unions have a lot of power, and can manipulate the population, something that is very good for the doctors, but ultimately bad for everybody else.

Imagine doctors being treated like cashiers in Wal-Mart. That would be great for the cost/treatment relation, and perfect for the vast majority of a population.

What do you guys think.

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freckles

Are you kidding me? Is this a joke?

chu chu rocket

Why do you believe it is a joke? Are you a doctor? Give me one good reason why it would be in your interest to pay a doctor more than you would have to.

OneCandidatereviews

You are evidently knowledgeable in healthcare, good for you. I dont understand the sarcasm though, people should be treated humanely and with respecty NO MATTER what they do for a living. I hope you were indeed sarcastic.

In my 17 years living in Europe, I had the best experiences with doctors who are held in high regard and are actually inclined to cure the patient instead of alleviating the symptoms. Every time i went to a doctor, he would spend plenty of time with me and explain exactly what's going on and what I need to do to fix it, not just writing a prescription that I don't understand and rushing out the door after spending 30 sec with me and writing an overpriced prescription before I'm even done talking. Doctor wages are not artificially inflated through limiting the amount of new doctors entering the workforce (as they are here) with the consequence of there being more doctors per capita. The reasons for student to take to the med. field are not just a good wage, but wanting to help people. Here when you talk to students they talk about money and benefits.

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chu chu rocket

I wasn't talking about treating doctors like dog shit. I was merely stating they ought to be paid as little as possible from the eyes of the patient. If you think this is outrageous, give me some arguments why this is "bad"

Hey, cool! Where did you live?

In Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, there are no free admissions into med school. Selection is based on grades or admission tests. Without knowing all the details, it is a well known fact that the bonds between the med schools and the unions of doctors are tight. In several of the mentioned countries, the doctor's unions are attempting to limit the amount of students finishing education. Now, there has been changes in these structures over the years, and I am sure there are different situations in the countries I ain't familiar with.

The point is that there are lots of unhappy people who would have both wanted to study and who would have been good enough to finish it (it ain't rocket science, damnit), and thus, you don't have to pay doctors much money! Supply and demand!

That was my point as well, wages are not all important for entering the medical field. That is why you can lower the wages, and still there would be enough wanting to study medicine.

As for what people say their motivation is, do you really trust them to tell the truth? Do you even think they are honest with themselves? Everybody lies.

kevindanielbrown

Who determines what is "more than I should have to pay"? Shouldn't the two parties involved with the transaction(the patient and the doctor) decide on that? What gives a third party(i.e. you, government etc.) the right to jump in and set the price of transaction they are not a part of?

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

"If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as the souls who live under tyranny." -Thomas Jefferson

freckles

Do you know any Dr. that would spend that long in school and work that many hours when they can make the same amount doing something that doesn't take almost half their life to qualify to be one, the rest of their life studying to maintain that position, and the possibility that one mistake can take their job from them forever? Being a surgical resident, your time is monopolized, something few are willing to do. One common trait with surgeons is narcissism. Why would they waste their time?

Picky

You seem to think learning to be a doctor isn't too hard... Have you done it?

Exactly how are you suggesting that the government "whip their doctors around like slaves, working for minimum wages"? This is a very vague suggestion.

Where a person fails to get a favorable outcome, send in the charity. Where society fails to give a person a favorable chance, send in the government.

Because the Constitution supports democracy, democracy should preserve the Constitution to ensure that it continues to support democracy.

kevindanielbrown

Then that would be $0. Receive the doctors services and never pay the bill huh? That indeed would be "as little as possible from the eyes of the patient." You want doctors to be unpaid?

wow...

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

"If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as the souls who live under tyranny." -Thomas Jefferson

OneCandidatereviews

Italy, Germany, England and Belgium.

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