How Would You Reform Our Public Schools? - Page 22

lakeman · 11-02-2007, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Paine

What to do with all the kids you just expelled?

Today, Rush Limbaugh's fill-in host was on about this topic. He also spoke of ending special ed programs. Are you also in favor of not educating those in need of more attention?

Sounds suspiciously like social darwinism to me. . .

The expelled students could go to schools where they could get an education appropriately taught for their difficulties in learning. And I really mean that the schools would have to be ready for their educational or behavioral problems. Either public or private. This way the kids with problems don't negatively efect the learning of the kids without problems.

Schools like this already exist; I used to be a counselor in one of them. They are extremely expensive. The question is whether or not they are more expensive than letting a few kids ruin the education of the rest.

And if they fail in those schools too then they can learn in the school of hard knocks or in prison schools. However under the current climate in our country no one would end up being expelled from schools like this. In the school where I worked the only reason a student would be taken out of school was if they were taken to the psych ward at the hospital. And then the hospital provided an education.

lakeman · 11-02-2007, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Paine

More Bible instruction would solve all the evils. . .

And for the first time in history FFA and I agree on a religious topic.

I don't know about all the evils, but an unbiased education about religions would bring out the truth. I expect it would go one way and FFA expects it would go another. And I would be happy with the outcome regardless of which way it went as long as it was unbiased.

Thomas Paine · 11-02-2007, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakeman

And for the first time in history FFA and I agree on a religious topic.

I don't know about all the evils, but an unbiased education about religions would bring out the truth. I expect it would go one way and FFA expects it would go another. And I would be happy with the outcome regardless of which way it went as long as it was unbiased.

Yes, a scientific look at the basis of religion, in an UNBIASED setting, would no doubt end the foolishness of dogma once and for all. . .

I'm all for coursework in both comparative religion and especially the roots of religious writings. I studied religion as an undergrad and it certainly went a long way to making me a more rational, reasonable person.

Thomas Paine · 11-02-2007, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakeman

The expelled students could go to schools where they could get an education appropriately taught for their difficulties in learning. And I really mean that the schools would have to be ready for their educational or behavioral problems. Either public or private. This way the kids with problems don't negatively efect the learning of the kids without problems.

Schools like this already exist; I used to be a counselor in one of them. They are extremely expensive. The question is whether or not they are more expensive than letting a few kids ruin the education of the rest.

And if they fail in those schools too then they can learn in the school of hard knocks or in prison schools. However under the current climate in our country no one would end up being expelled from schools like this. In the school where I worked the only reason a student would be taken out of school was if they were taken to the psych ward at the hospital. And then the hospital provided an education.

I don't think special ed kids should be segregated. They should be mainstreamed as much as possible, but pulled out for the special instruction they need. Otherwise, children will grow up having never encountered a person with special needs (much less interact with them on a daily basis) and will therefore lack perspective and compassion when dealing with such matters as adults.

I have no problem sticking trouble-makers in their own school. Most large districts have such schools and they seem to be effective. However, it would be a mistake WRIT LARGE to exclude developmentally delayed individuals from mainstream schooling.

lakeman · 11-02-2007, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Paine

I don't think special ed kids should be segregated. They should be mainstreamed as much as possible, but pulled out for the special instruction they need. Otherwise, children will grow up having never encountered a person with special needs (much less interact with them on a daily basis) and will therefore lack perspective and compassion when dealing with such matters as adults.

I have no problem sticking trouble-makers in their own school. Most large districts have such schools and they seem to be effective. However, it would be a mistake WRIT LARGE to exclude developmentally delayed individuals from mainstream schooling.

I agree 100%. Mainstreaming is fantastic when it is appropriate.

My son has a girl with Down's in his class. It has given me great opportunities to teach him about acceptance.

Thomas Paine · 11-02-2007, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakeman

I agree 100%. Mainstreaming is fantastic when it is appropriate.

My son has a girl with Down's in his class. It has given me great opportunities to teach him about acceptance.

I have a daughter with epilepsy. She attended one school until the 2nd grade and had a seizure at school. She was ostracized after that point.

So, we changed schools. On the first day of class, I went in and showed a 10-minute film about epilepsy and then the teacher gave me another 15 minutes for Q&A and then to introduce my daughter to the class. She's had seizures at her new school, but the kids there work as her "protector" and watch out for her. We learned from our daughter's first school experience that we simply needed to let the other kids know about her and that they'd then accept her.

The 30 minutes or so of class-time I took up on the 1st day of school three years ago is certainly a lot less disruptive than the every-day occurence of bullying and picking on someone perceived as "different."

justoneman · 11-02-2007, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Paine

I have a daughter with epilepsy. She attended one school until the 2nd grade and had a seizure at school. She was ostracized after that point.

So, we changed schools. On the first day of class, I went in and showed a 10-minute film about epilepsy and then the teacher gave me another 15 minutes for Q&A and then to introduce my daughter to the class. She's had seizures at her new school, but the kids there work as her "protector" and watch out for her. We learned from our daughter's first school experience that we simply needed to let the other kids know about her and that they'd then accept her.

The 30 minutes or so of class-time I took up on the 1st day of school three years ago is certainly a lot less disruptive than the every-day occurence of bullying and picking on someone perceived as "different."

Perhaps the children at the new school would have accepted her without the speech you gave. It is interesting how all students are percieved differently when they attend a new scool. It always ranges the full gamut. I am glad your daughter has had a good school experience after here transfer.

freckles · 11-02-2007, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakeman

I agree 100%. Mainstreaming is fantastic when it is appropriate.

My son has a girl with Down's in his class. It has given me great opportunities to teach him about acceptance.

I used to teach the inclusion class and it was very disruptive. It's fine if that person is fully functional, but when they are not, it's not fair to the others. Especially when the teacher assigns group work. That class was much farther behind than my other classes. It's one thing if you have an IEP, it's another if you need assistance beyond just the teacher. Just the assistant being in the room was distracting.

freckles · 11-02-2007, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justoneman

Perhaps the children at the new school would have accepted her without the speech you gave. It is interesting how all students are percieved differently when they attend a new scool. It always ranges the full gamut. I am glad your daughter has had a good school experience after here transfer.

No one ever gave the student with epilepsy a hard time at my school and none of us knew he had it until he cracked his head open while having a seizure. I think it's just a case by case thing with kids. Kids will pick on anyone who is different, even if it's just your hair.

Thomas Paine · 11-02-2007, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justoneman

Perhaps the children at the new school would have accepted her without the speech you gave. It is interesting how all students are percieved differently when they attend a new scool. It always ranges the full gamut. I am glad your daughter has had a good school experience after here transfer.

Perhaps. But I doubt it. I explicitly asked for their help, at the suggestion of a child psychologist. Apparently, people much smarter than me have actually studied such scenarios. . .