Who was more nasty/notorious?

Zaragrunudgeyon · 01-07-2008, 03:07 AM

Gestapo or KGB?

I say Gestapo.

PalindromeHannah · 01-07-2008, 07:08 AM

The Gestapo had the responsibilty of setting up and maintaing the concentration camps, I'm thinking they win this one....

I mean c'mon those concertration camps were 'nasty'....

Helena · 01-07-2008, 10:33 AM

Then, the KGB (or, more precisely, the NKVD, which at some point became a part of the KGB, or vice versa, shit I don't remember) ran the Gulag system. And they did other pretty "nasty" stuff as well.

I don't think it's possible to determine which one of those organizations was "nastier". Notoriety probably depends on where you ask. But the KGB definitely lasted longer.

TenGig · 01-07-2008, 10:38 AM

*Knock Knock*

Who's there?

Gestapo

Gestapo w...

WE ASK THE QUESTIONS HERE!!!

PS. I say the Gestapo for all their camps

PalindromeHannah · 01-07-2008, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helena

Then, the KGB (or, more precisely, the NKVD, which at some point became a part of the KGB, or vice versa, shit I don't remember) ran the Gulag system. And they did other pretty "nasty" stuff as well.

I don't think it's possible to determine which one of those organizations was "nastier". Notoriety probably depends on where you ask. But the KGB definitely lasted longer.

True. But I'd say the Nazi concentration camps were more notorious, mainly because more people are aware they existed. I mean from what I've seen not too many people are familiar with the Gulag system. I suppose the Jews made sure people knew - if they didn't already.

Helena · 01-07-2008, 11:39 AM

My grandma (dad's mom) had an older brother who died in a gas chamber in 1942. He was 16 years old. My late grandpa (mom's dad) lost his mother and sister in a German concentration camp, too. He fought Nazis during the SNU ( Slovak National Uprising - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) and nearly got killed several times. The KGB, on the other hand, never directly affected my family, as far as I know. But I still think it's a shame when people aren't aware of their crimes, specifically of the Gulag system.

To my knowledge, there were no gas chambers in Gulag, but the conditions were horrible beyond belief - literally. I'm not sure it's possible to honestly say that German concentration camps were worse than the Gulag. Hell, there are people who have experienced both - maybe we'd have to ask them.... Add to that, the KGB is guilty of many atrocities outside the camps, as is the Gestapo.

I just don't think this is a matter of comparison.

Vanguard · 01-08-2008, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helena

[...] To my knowledge, there were no gas chambers in Gulag, but the conditions were horrible beyond belief - literally. I'm not sure it's possible to honestly say that German concentration camps were worse than the Gulag. Hell, there are people who have experienced both - maybe we'd have to ask them.... Add to that, the KGB is guilty of many atrocities outside the camps, as is the Gestapo. [...]

Quite true. German camps can not be seen as worse than Soviet Gulag camps. If the extermination accounts are to be believed as true, well then most Jews were not aware of what fate awaited them in Treblinka etc. Compare that to a person who is sent away to a labour camp in Siberia and whose life expires after twenty odd years, due to inhumane living and working conditions, in combination with physical and mental abuse.

As for extermination, the Ottoman Empire exterminated about a million Armenians in 1915. That is only one example of genocide. More recent is examples such as Rwanda. Also remember that Mao Tze Tsung is responsible for the deaths of countless people during the culture revolution. Pol Pot and his regime is responsible for most deaths in any nation per capita. And how many lives does Stalin have on his consciense? Just how many Ukrainians starved to death during his Russiafication?

The sole reason why people insist on portraying the Nazis as the world�s worst villains, is because there has arisen this idea that alla people should merge and fall under a one world government. Personally I detest that idea. Does that make me a Nazi? Definitely not! But media etc. would say otherwise. Truth is only appreciated as long as it displays the politiscians point of view as the only possible truth there is. People need to form their own opinions instead of being led like cattle.

caffeine · 01-08-2008, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanguard

The sole reason why people insist on portraying the Nazis as the world�s worst villains, is because there has arisen this idea that alla people should merge and fall under a one world government. Personally I detest that idea. Does that make me a Nazi? Definitely not! But media etc. would say otherwise. Truth is only appreciated as long as it displays the politiscians point of view as the only possible truth there is. People need to form their own opinions instead of being led like cattle.

Utter balls. Give me examples of the mainstream media consistently labelling opponents of a One World Government as Nazis. You don't want black people in Sweden so people keep calling you a Nazi. Stop getting your knickers in a twist about it.

Vanguard · 01-08-2008, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caffeine

Utter balls. Give me examples of the mainstream media consistently labelling opponents of a One World Government as Nazis. You don't want black people in Sweden so people keep calling you a Nazi. Stop getting your knickers in a twist about it.

And what exactly do you mean by this post? Your view of a one world government probably differs from mine. Besides, I have never argued that such a government would take shape this century. But the future is a quagmire, and one I wish to unfold differently from where we are heading today.

No I do not want black people in Sweden. Why should I?

caffeine · 01-08-2008, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanguard

And what exactly do you mean by this post? Your view of a one world government probably differs from mine. Besides, I have never argued that such a government would take shape this century. But the future is a quagmire, and one I wish to unfold differently from where we are heading today.

No I do not want black people in Sweden. Why should I?

Didn't say you should. I was explaining why people keep calling you a Nazi, which strikes me as the principal inspiration for you getting so upset about supposedly overestimating the evils of the Nazis. What I meant by my post was that you're confusing other people not sharing your bigotry with a conspiracy to bring about one world government.