The Danger of Securing the U.S. / Mexican Border

Dayton3 · 03-02-2008, 01:24 PM

Everyone seems to want illegal immigration ended one way or another. A substantial number (probably a majority) want all illegal immigrants sent back to their country of origin. Primarily Mexico.

Others want a guest worker program to allow those here to remain but not become citizens.

Either way, both sides seem to agree that securing the U.S./Mexican border and not allowing so many illegal immigrants across is a good idea.

Major problem.

Roughly one milliion Mexicans come into the U.S. illegally every year. Just a couple of years ago, a Mexican official admitted that without the "safety valve" of large scale immigration to the U.S., Mexico would become "ungovernable" within two or three years. A buildup of three million young Mexicans without jobs in Mexico over the course of three years would mean chaos in Mexico.

It is entirely possible that the Mexican government would collapse entirely as hunger, despair, and eventually mass rioting and unrest spread.

And desperate Mexicans have only one direction to go.

A tidal wave of humanity from Mexico would flow toward the U.S./Mexican border. They would swamp all social and humanitarian services along the border and inevitably criminals and predators would be a part of that wave, preying on Mexican refugees and American citizens alike.

Eventually, the only solution left for the U.S. would be military invasion and occupation of Mexico. This would be a horrendous mess that would last for decades. This was one of the scenarios in the late Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger's book "The Next War".

So seal the border if you want. Kick out all illegals if you wish.

But know this:

The inevitable result of these actions will be the U.S. having to occupy and police Mexico with 300-500,000 troops at some point in the not so distant future.

michaelr · 03-02-2008, 10:29 PM

Why can't the Mexican police their side? As for the rest of your article, it sounds like your reporting the news, not what ifs.

I thought we were in a war on terror, I think that alone would require secure borders and ports.

The_Bear · 03-02-2008, 10:38 PM

@michaelr:
the point is not whether the government can police their side. The point is that the only thing that keeps a people from disobeying the laws is if somehow the laws provide enough sustenance for the people as a whole.
You know this, I know this - you need only look to the Federalist Papers to know that the people who wrote the constitution acknowledged this fact. Some said that the new formed federal government should not have the ability to tax exports, only imports; and rightly so, had this been adopted, it would have promoted a 'culture of smuggling' where the law had essentially no effect on the day to day lives of people.

The governing force of America is not the government; it is the markets, that control the interactions between the people. How does the government promote change? Through taxes; it makes one option more profitable then the other. Unless, of course, you'd have them govern through the military, in which case the government ceases to be a government by the people for the people, and becomes the government of America.

But I have digressed.
Unless the mexican government wants to devote a vast portion of its resources to policing the borer, thus stealing more money from its taxpayers, and promoting more poverty, thus promoting more illegal immigration, there needs to be an effort to reform the economy of mexico, to make them see 'oh look, I dont need to go to America to make money; i can stay here.'

Thunderstorm Patriot · 03-04-2008, 06:53 AM

I understand that a nation must provide in order to be governable. But what you are essentially saying is that the government of Mexico has been allowed to artificially remain a failure because they dump the problems on Americans.

Mexico needs to survive or fall on its own merits. If they had more pressure on their side of the border to reform and spread the wealth a little more then maybe they would find a way to fix their issues. If not then they need to have a new government.

The answer is not to let the United States operate as a safety net for Mexico. The answer is to make the Mexican government start serving its people.

Dayton3 · 03-07-2008, 08:46 AM

And what if the Mexican government simply will not do that?

Ultimately something has to be done even if the Mexican govt. will not do it themselves.

That is why I've said the fight against illegal immigration can't be won at the border.

Ultimately, the battle will have to be fought in Mexico City and other centers of power so to speak in Mexico.

johnflesh · 03-07-2008, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderstorm Patriot

I understand that a nation must provide in order to be governable. But what you are essentially saying is that the government of Mexico has been allowed to artificially remain a failure because they dump the problems on Americans.

You are close, from what I can gather. Its a case of MYOB. It technically not our business until an illegal crosses the border even though we know full well there is no relationship going on between the Mexican Government and our own. We care more about what Iran is doing than we do about our own neighbors. This of course, during a WoT, which makes zero sense at all.

Quote:

Mexico needs to survive or fall on its own merits. If they had more pressure on their side of the border to reform and spread the wealth a little more then maybe they would find a way to fix their issues. If not then they need to have a new government.

Well certainly way easier said than done. First of all they are surviving on their own merits and due to that the people want the hell out of that country because the merits are worthless and cater to the few individuals in control at the moment. I agree there needs to be pressure. From us, from their own people who are in a position to leave the country, and any other nationalist who wants a future for Mexico. However that is one corrupt piece of land at the time being and its a long uphill battle.

We'd be best opening relations with them, constant dialog, and prime focus on the problems.

Quote:

The answer is not to let the United States operate as a safety net for Mexico. The answer is to make the Mexican government start serving its people.

I couldn't agree more. Its just that the Mexican government gives zero care to the situation. Our government only cares during elections. And more or less the common thread is that it isn't really an issue until someone crosses the border, and that is just irresponsible of both governments. And it confirms Dayton's passage that we can't win this at the border. Its much deeper than that.

justoneman · 03-07-2008, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dayton3

Everyone seems to want illegal immigration ended one way or another. A substantial number (probably a majority) want all illegal immigrants sent back to their country of origin. Primarily Mexico.

Others want a guest worker program to allow those here to remain but not become citizens.

Either way, both sides seem to agree that securing the U.S./Mexican border and not allowing so many illegal immigrants across is a good idea.

Major problem.

Roughly one milliion Mexicans come into the U.S. illegally every year. Just a couple of years ago, a Mexican official admitted that without the "safety valve" of large scale immigration to the U.S., Mexico would become "ungovernable" within two or three years. A buildup of three million young Mexicans without jobs in Mexico over the course of three years would mean chaos in Mexico.

It is entirely possible that the Mexican government would collapse entirely as hunger, despair, and eventually mass rioting and unrest spread.

And desperate Mexicans have only one direction to go.

A tidal wave of humanity from Mexico would flow toward the U.S./Mexican border. They would swamp all social and humanitarian services along the border and inevitably criminals and predators would be a part of that wave, preying on Mexican refugees and American citizens alike.

Eventually, the only solution left for the U.S. would be military invasion and occupation of Mexico. This would be a horrendous mess that would last for decades. This was one of the scenarios in the late Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger's book "The Next War".

So seal the border if you want. Kick out all illegals if you wish.

But know this:

The inevitable result of these actions will be the U.S. having to occupy and police Mexico with 300-500,000 troops at some point in the not so distant future.

The elimination of illegal aliens would be accomplished hand in hand with LEGAL immigration. There is no reason why similar numbers of LEGAL aliens should not be working in the USA.

Six · 03-08-2008, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dayton3

Everyone seems to want illegal immigration ended one way or another. A substantial number (probably a majority) want all illegal immigrants sent back to their country of origin. Primarily Mexico.

Others want a guest worker program to allow those here to remain but not become citizens.

Either way, both sides seem to agree that securing the U.S./Mexican border and not allowing so many illegal immigrants across is a good idea.

Major problem.

Roughly one milliion Mexicans come into the U.S. illegally every year. Just a couple of years ago, a Mexican official admitted that without the "safety valve" of large scale immigration to the U.S., Mexico would become "ungovernable" within two or three years. A buildup of three million young Mexicans without jobs in Mexico over the course of three years would mean chaos in Mexico.

It is entirely possible that the Mexican government would collapse entirely as hunger, despair, and eventually mass rioting and unrest spread.

And desperate Mexicans have only one direction to go.

A tidal wave of humanity from Mexico would flow toward the U.S./Mexican border. They would swamp all social and humanitarian services along the border and inevitably criminals and predators would be a part of that wave, preying on Mexican refugees and American citizens alike.

Eventually, the only solution left for the U.S. would be military invasion and occupation of Mexico. This would be a horrendous mess that would last for decades. This was one of the scenarios in the late Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger's book "The Next War".

So seal the border if you want. Kick out all illegals if you wish.

But know this:

The inevitable result of these actions will be the U.S. having to occupy and police Mexico with 300-500,000 troops at some point in the not so distant future.

How about we police our own border. It wouldn't take 500,00 troops to do that effectively.

Dayton3 · 03-10-2008, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Six

How about we police our own border. It wouldn't take 500,00 troops to do that effectively.

My point was simple:

1) The U.S. effectively polices its own border.

2) The Mexican government collapses and chaos reigns.

3) U.S. border gets swamped by a herd of refugees that no amount of border control can stop.

joebobkc · 03-31-2008, 10:25 PM

How about we seal the border with our national guard. Then when the Mexican people no longer have the option to travel north for employment. They revolt and force there government to change its corrupt ways. Mexico is a very rich country. They have plenty of natural resources. Why do they remain a 3rd world country? I'll tell you why, because they don't have to reform there economy, they have the USA as there safety valve.

People of Mexico its time for a Revolution!