justoneman

The first Republican was Abraham Lincoln. The first Democrat was Andrew Jackson. Am I correct?

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justoneman

Andrew Jackson (first Democrat) Violently and repeatedly slaughtered the indians as a military general. As a President he ordered their removal to remote territories (deserts mostly) where they died of starvation and desease.

Abraham Lincoln (first Republican) When history forced his hand, he defended the union of the states and ultimately fought for the fredom of black slaves.


am I wrong?

Tide

This is correct, although some Democrats like to point to Jefferson as their founder (which disgusts me)

In my opinion, both presidents were scumbags. The major accomplishment in the Jacksonian era was giving the "common man" the right to vote which arguably led to the current Machiavellian style politics of the modern era and, in my opinion, ruined this country. Lincoln took a shit on the Constitution by removing the writ of Habeas Corpus in the border states, and led a military struggle against his fellow Americans. As an ultra conservative Libertarian Republican, I believe that the Republican party was founded by big government progressives. I am glad the Republican party strayed away from Lincoln.

"My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute."
-Ayn Rand

justoneman

Yes there is a big propaganda campaign to try to convince people that the Democratic party is the Democratic-Republican party. Fact is that the Democratic Republican party had a candidate in the election against Andrew Jacksons Democratic Party.

No the fact is that Jackson began the Democratic party and it was a party based on supreme power of the President exercised with great zeal and directed squarely at the native american population.


By the way. The suspension of habeus corpus by Lincoln during the Civil War was needed. Marshal has been utilized on a number of ocassions in the US. You would need to certainly ad FDR to your hated list in that regard.

Tide

There is nothing in the constitution that says it is illegal to leave the union!!! The states had freely joined it and they should have been able to freely leave it!!!


P.S.
FDR=Satan

"My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute."
-Ayn Rand

justoneman

there is nothing in the constitution that says states can freely leave the union as well. The states are seperate parts of the whole. They are not seperate countries. They joined freely but they signed onto the rules and once having done so, it was the estimation of Lincoln that, they did not have the right to seperate. I agree with that premise. Can a town decide to secede from the USA? If not why not? They have a seperate government??

Tide

What you say is correct in a modern perspective, but back in 1860 and back in 1789 the states were thought of as seperate countries up to an extent. After all, the states had existed as virtually independant colonies for almost 200 years. They united in the American Revolution only out of necessity and even then they were relatively weakly bonded. There were debates on the union all throughout the years leading up to the civil war, and South Carolina even threatened to nullify federal law during Jackson's administration. Jefferson and Madison (the architect of the Constitution) wrote in the Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions that states could nullify federal law.

People would have and did say that the "United States were founded in 1776" instead of the "United States was founded in 1776"

Maybe Lincoln thought that the union was final, but millions of his fellow Americans obviously disagreed. Lincoln attacked the South for having a different viewpoint on the union. The South's viewpoint on union was equally as valid as his own viewpoint because the Constitution does not contain a word on the "rules of union". Lincoln's imperious will and his arrogant viewpoint caused the bloodiest war ever fought in North America.

"My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute."
-Ayn Rand

Goldwater

Oh I get it, you're so smart JOM. Don't you get it everybody........

Democrats have been evil forever

and

Republicans have been Christian wonderful people forever

Thank you for clearing that up, you're so smart!...

Republican......great and wonderful
Democrat........terrible end evil

I guess we'd better elect a Republican

FFA...Nothing new. The darkies are always threatening to riot if they don't get their way.

Defensor

The Republican Party is still very much the party of Lincoln. War, big government, corporate welfare, reckless spending, statism, its all there still.

The idea that the Democratic Party is the party of Jefferson is laughable, but even Jackson would not have recognized the current party as his own.

The_Bear

no bias in this thread here.

The ignorant ask "what is my effect on the world?"
The enlightened ask "What does the world know about itself?"

The Bear

I am The Bear
The Bear