johnflesh

Faith works a little different than that and in reality this is just your explanation, from the FFA's dictionary. It does little explaining.

A lesson learned in life, known from the dawn of time. Respect. Walk.

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Djinn

Gladly... These two sum up a fair bit; especially the second one.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/04/04/neurotheology/
Religion a figment of human imagination - being-human - 28 April 2008 - New Scientist

Freedom for All

No, except that the self-deception may not be deliberate. People want something to be true, so they believe in it. They remember a land of huge beings that took care of them and kept them warm and comfortable, beings that disappeared when they got older. So they invent gods to replace their infantile memories of their parents, and thus faith is born.

MYOB. - The key to liberty. Don't know MYOB? Leave me alone and mind your own business.

I'm a greedy selfish bastard, and damn proud of it.

You're not foolish enough to trust government, are you? Then think about this:

Since there isn't any corn on the cob, thanks solely to government interference, my kids have lost the freedom to eat corn on the cob on the Fourth of July this year.

What the hell kind of country are the socialists building here?

jojo

Then there is string theory - and we begin to understand that in some ways we're like chimps. I believe in science - but I know results will be overturned as time progresses. Hell, scientists once claimed humans travelling faster than 15 miles perhour would die - being unable to breathe.

Let me start off by saying that in 2000 I said, 'Vote for me. I'm an agent of change.' In 2004, I said, 'I'm not interested in change --I want to continue as president.' Every candidate has got to say 'change.' That's what the American people expect." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., March 5, 2008

Djinn

Can you source this?

OrdinaryGuy

Many people hold an assumption that the scientific view of the world should be the basis for all knowledge and all that is knowable. This is scientific materialism. Although I am not aware of a school of thought that explicitly propounds this notion, it seems to be a common unexamined pre-supposition. This view upholds a belief in an objective world, independent of the contingency of its observers. It assumes that the data being analyzed within an experiment are independent of the preconceptions, perceptions and experience of the scientist analyzing them.

Underlying this view is the assumption that, in the final analysis, matter, as it can be described by physics and as it is governed by the laws of physics, is all there is. Accordingly, this view would uphold that psychology can be reduced to biology, biology to chemistry and chemistry to physics. It's important to understand that this reductionist position does not constitute scientific knowledge, rather they represent a philosophical, in fact a metaphysical, position. Their is a potential that nihilism could ensue with such a radical view. Nihilsm, materialism and reductionism has the potential to impoverish the way we view ourselves and I mentioned the study of eugenics that resulted from the belief in Social Darwinism. If the study of eugenics has taught us anything it is that humans build themselves in the images they create for themselves. Whether we see ourselves as a random biological creatures or as beings endowed with the dimension of consciousness and moral capacity will make an impact on how we feel about ourselves and how we treat others. In the view of radical scientific materialist, dimensions of the full reality of what it is to be human: art, ethics, spirituality, goodness, beauty and above all, consciousness are reduced to the chemical reactions of firing neurons or are seen as a matter of purely imaginary constructs. The danger then is that human beings may be reduced to nothing more than biological machines, the products of pure chance in a random combination of genes, with no purpose other than the biological imperative of reproduction. The problem is not so much with the empirical data of science but with the contention that these data alone constitute the legitimate ground for developing a comprehensive worldview or an adequate means for responding to the world's problems. There is more to human existence and to reality itself than current science can ever give us access to.

On the same token, spirituality should be tempered by the insights and discoveries of science. If spiritual practioners ignore the discoveries of science, they also impoverish their own practice and this mind set leads to fundamentalism.

freecell

Djinn

Not true. Scientific principles are discovered; not "invented." The evidence supporting evolutionary theory would exist even if there were no atheists.

johnflesh

That is a form of faith, sure. But its not the only form of faith. Faith doesn't have to concern Gods and lies and illogical thinking, it often has nothing to do with any of that.

What happens to your conscious after you die FFA?

A lesson learned in life, known from the dawn of time. Respect. Walk.

johnflesh

I'm not going to discount these sources as they were very interesting to read, its too damn early and I haven't had my coffee, and without sounding smug, these are theories in the works. There is no standard built concerning faith in the logical book of scientific knowns, its tests at this point. Until the information is entered in as a logical known, its mere theory.

There are two extremes concerning faith, logical positivism and fideism, both being polar opposites. I've always been a person to believe that the true form of faith resides somewhere in between and is neither standard nor extreme.

Often people who are very logical throw that logic out the window to rely on faith, but not before they have relied on that logic for a very long time. Its often in moments that don't require much thought, only muscular movements and motions.

An example would be trusting/distrust of other drivers on the road based on logic. Logic dictates your motions but often we use faith because logic has held true for so long and has become a standard.

Waiting at a stop light your light turns green, you pull through the intersection without looking to see if the other 2 lanes of cross traffic really did stop. 99.999999% of the time you look to make sure the other drivers stopped, but that one time you don't look to make sure, you are using faith and you have abandoned logic. Faith in your logical understanding of the truth, or standard.

The point here is if you don't look to see, you have no real way of stating you used logic because you cannot prove that all traffic did stop or not. If you get smashed from the cross traffic, obviously your faith didn't work out to well, but if you coast on through and everyone did indeed stop, then you don't give it a second glance... but its still faith. Faith in logic.

On an aside, I have to have faith in the devices of science to determine the truth. These devices were created by fallible man and not in my garage. So without my pure personal understanding of how they work, I am relying on my faith in someone's word.

What about love and being faithful to another? Its not tangible, has no mass, takes up zero space, but is real. Often logic will dictate that you will be cheated on, left behind, or have a great relationship, but if you don't invest faith in the counterpart of the relationship, often times the relationship won't work out.

I have no sources for either, these are observations I've made. I hope I haven't rambled too much.

A lesson learned in life, known from the dawn of time. Respect. Walk.