Djinn

The threat of "mutually assured destruction" is what kept the missiles from flying during the cold war. It's a hell of a gamble, and we lucked out.

However, the threat is not a useful deterrent when one of the sides is willing to embrace death for the sake of destroying the enemy; a perspective that is shared by a disturbingly high percentage of Muslims.

Those middle-eastern nations attempting to develop nuclear weapons have made threats against two countries; Israel, and the U.S. The U.S. has the advantage of being rather far away from these countries. Israel does not share that luxury... Nor is Israel in the habit of making general threats to annihilate other nations.

Advertising

joetalmadge

I guess the question for me is whether "we" stick to the doctrine of stopping the other ME countries from having them. "We" can't do a damn thing about Israel's nukes, but it seems clear that Iran and Syria are seriously exploring the idea, and Iraq did...once. Personally I think, whether we like it or not, it's up to Israel to decide the issue-as they did in Iraq (and maybe in Syria)-and for "us" to decide whether to support them in these efforts.

Apart from further expansion into the west bank it looks clear that Israel is focused on defense, while the Arabs surrounding them are still capable of trying to wipe them out, so I say Israel needs the "security" of having nukes. Iran's need for them is probably almost completely based on fear of a US invasion, and the best way to try and ease them from that is to try and set up a dialog with them, and to hell with McCain's disdain of it.

Latherty

Attacking or defending?

Did you know a disturbing number of ordinary christian Americans are willing to embrace death for the sake of destroying an enemy?

Anyway, MAD works. And has less to do with luck than simple rationalization.

Latherty

Yeah, apart from Poland so was Hitler.

But seriously, which ME country is being aggressive on their borders?

Djinn

I challenge this. Certainly, such Christians (and Jews) exist, but not in great numbers. While far from the majority among Muslims in general, Islam boasts a far higher number of people willing to kill themselves for their god... or worse, encourage their followers to do so.

Rationalization is a wonderful thing. Unfortunately, people willing to destroy themselves in support of their religion are not rational.

The_Bear

i'd like the opening poster to define the word 'right'.
I don't know what it means.

The ignorant ask "what is my effect on the world?"
The enlightened ask "What does the world know about itself?"

The Bear

I am The Bear
The Bear

Djinn

Very well. Let's play a game.

You name one non-Muslim (from within the last century) that killed himself in the name of his or her own religion.

Then I will name three Muslims that did the same.

Then you name one more non-Muslim.

Then I will name three more Muslims.

Whoever runs out of names first loses. I'm handicapping myself by limiting myself to one religion only, and then by a factor of three to one.

Care to play?

res

OK. I will most probably lose but what the hell.

Baruch Goldstein

Djinn

Questionable... Goldstein's actions were nothing short of reprehensible, however, he did not take his own life. According to the Shamgar Commission (which investigated the incident), Goldstein was disarmed and beaten to death. I'm not condemning those who did it, but I'm merely stating the fact that Goldstein did not take his own life.

Nonetheless, I'm willing to overlook this; I would not have it said that I'm being unfairly strict.

Ali Hussein Ali al-Shamari, and his wife, Sajida Mubarak Atrous al-Rishawi were a husband-and-wife team of suicide bombers involved with a bombing at the Radisson SAS Hotel in Amman (Jordan) in November 2005. Al-Rishawi survived, only because her suicide belt malfunctioned.

Mesut Cabuk and Gokhan Elaltuntas were Turkish Muslims who blew themselves up at two Jewish synagogues in Istanbul in November 2003.

I think that the woman with the malfunctioning belt should still count due to the obvious intent, but just in case, I've provided a total of four.

Your turn. And why do you think that you will "probably lose?"

res

Goldstein committed suicide because he knew he was going to die.

Eden Natan Zada

Quang Duc

Yin Keo

Roland Weisselberg

Oskar Brüsewitz

M X Karunaratnam


I said I'm going to lose because I'm very slow in gathering information. The other thing being that Islam and Arabs are under scrutiny these days.