Changed my mind; Gay sex is OK!!

BibleThumper · 05-26-2008, 08:55 AM

I feel bad for lashing out at homosexuals, quoting levitcus 18:22.

I strongly believe that the Bible is the word of God, and that you can't just pick words from the Bible as it suits you, that would be creating your own faith according to comfort, and not according to truth. It is appeal to consequences, "I like this, therefore it must be true." Which it isn't- it is just a logical fallacy.

I need the Bible to be true, because if the Bible wasn't true, then God wouldn't be true, the way I was raised to believe in him. Some would say that is appeal to consequences as well, but it is not- it is just strong motivation.

Anyway, levitcus 18:22 says:

Quote:

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination

I used to believe that this meant that you couldn't sleep with men. But that is not what is written, word by word. It says that if you have doggy-style sex with a woman, you should not have doggy-style sex with a man. But you could have sex in the missionary position, then you don't lie with males as with females.

Not guilty on technicalities, but as a good fundamentalist Christian, my whole faith is based on technicalities.

roobarb · 05-27-2008, 03:40 PM

O.k. Bible Thumper. Let this heretic respond.

You say you feel bad for lashing out out homosexuals by quoting Leviticus. Sorry but you feeling guilty about hating people means what? You don't sound at all like you have any remorse about how your exercise can hurt gay people-you simply sound selfish and concerned with how to wash the blood stains from your hand. Sounds like a Shakespearian tragedy either that or you don't have any hand sanitizer and what that hand sanitzer handed to you on a platter.Nah. Not from this heretic. Also I am in love with Jodie Foster which makes me a male lesbian.

Now what I also find ironic is you quote the Old Testament. Why? You devout Christian fundamentalists should make up your mind. No you can't have your cake and eat it to and use the Old Testament strictly when its convenient to you. That is disingenuine. Save the old Testament for us Hebrew heretics o.k.?

That said many of us Hebrew heretics don't take the Bible or the Talmud literally. So no we don't stone people anymore. Sorry. The only things that get Jews stoned this days is smoking dope.

Now you said;

"I strongly believe that the Bible is the word of God, and that you can't just pick words from the Bible as it suits you, that would be creating your own faith according to comfort..."

and then you say in the very next breath;

"I need the Bible to be true, because if the Bible wasn't true, then God wouldn't be true, the way I was raised to believe in him."

So on the one hand you denounce faith according to comfort and then in the very next breath demonstrate your faith is based on your need to be comforted.

That is a big CONTRADICTION. Why the disconnect? Why do you think you can lecture others not to use religon for comfort but you can?

As well your assumption that you must read the Bible literally for it to be true and make God true is illogical. Saying you MUST be illogical because that is what you were raised to believe means what-you can't think? You can't use reason? You just are some person who inherits and repeats verbatum what others tell you?

If that is the case, then there it is-you do not want to think, you just want to repeat what you are told and not have to question anything. How nice.

So now then, this justifies your guilt right? You need to go around hating and being intolerant of people cuz your religious doctrine says so-so there?

Uh hello? Are you there? Is all religion is to you a think to digest then regurgitate on command?

That gives you comfort? You ever think its not and that is why you feel guilty?

You ever think you wrote the above because its not working?

Of course its not working! Where did you get this fixed idea from that if you don't read things literally they aren't true?

Do you believe in Santa Claus? You believe in the tooth fairy? Sounds like you want to remain in an infant state where everything is delivered to you on a platter and you are sheltered from anything and everything you can't understand.

No thanks I do not want to play the role of enabler and encourage your ignorance.

You were ignorant to use the Bible as a rationalization to hate gays and there is nothing to forgive you for over that. It makes you dangerous. It means you use the Bible as a weapon no different then someone else brandishes a gun. I would say to you what I would say to anyone who points their gun in my face, point it somewhere else fast and no I am not afraid of your gun and I do not respect any weapon.

You want to live in a fantasy world where you don't have to use reason and logic and common sense, so be it, but no I am not here to be your chear-leader and tell you oh that's well it makes you divine.

Nope. All it does is to point out to me you are another person running around with a loaded Bible looking to slew people. Thanks. Been there done that. Your people have caused enough pogroms and slaughters and genocides using that kind of approach.

Some would say that is appeal to consequences as well, but it is not- it is just strong motivation.

Anyway, levitcus 18:22 says:

I used to believe that this meant that you couldn't sleep with men. But that is not what is written, word by word. It says that if you have doggy-style sex with a woman, you should not have doggy-style sex with a man. But you could have sex in the missionary position, then you don't lie with males as with females.

Not guilty on technicalities, but as a good fundamentalist Christian, my whole faith is based on technicalities.
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Dr.Knuckles · 05-27-2008, 04:27 PM

Hold the phone roobarb. My sarcasm sense is tingling!

michaelr · 05-27-2008, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BibleThumper

I feel bad for lashing out at homosexuals, quoting levitcus 18:22.

I strongly believe that the Bible is the word of God, and that you can't just pick words from the Bible as it suits you, that would be creating your own faith according to comfort, and not according to truth. It is appeal to consequences, "I like this, therefore it must be true." Which it isn't- it is just a logical fallacy.

I need the Bible to be true, because if the Bible wasn't true, then God wouldn't be true, the way I was raised to believe in him. Some would say that is appeal to consequences as well, but it is not- it is just strong motivation.

Anyway, levitcus 18:22 says:

I used to believe that this meant that you couldn't sleep with men. But that is not what is written, word by word. It says that if you have doggy-style sex with a woman, you should not have doggy-style sex with a man. But you could have sex in the missionary position, then you don't lie with males as with females.

Not guilty on technicalities, but as a good fundamentalist Christian, my whole faith is based on technicalities.
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This is a fucking joke, right?

Faithful One · 05-27-2008, 06:02 PM

I don't care if you don't like people using the Bible as back-up for there posts. I am going to use it. I believe God is real, and that he wrote the Bible for us to learn. If God is real, then I should probably read the Bible then, huh? Yeah, I think so.

Anyways:
If God had intended the human race to be fulfilled through both heterosexual and homosexual marriage, He would have designed our bodies to allow reproduction through both means and made both means of sexual intercourse healthy and natural. Homosexual anal intercourse carries a high risk of disease, this is recognized in Scripture where gay men are said to receive in their bodies the due penalty for their error.

Hollywood has propagated the myth that when it comes to marriage "all you need is love." This is simply not true. Marriage is not based on emotion any more than any other partnership in life is. Marriage, like many human activities, involves emotion but it is not constituted by the presence of any particular set of emotions. I do not deny that many homosexuals feel deeply for their partners; however I do assert that no matter how deep the feelings, what they have is not a marriage in God's sight. It is a beautiful deception.

foxtuba · 05-27-2008, 09:11 PM

I'm glad that God was courteous enough to make some gays and lesbians concerned about loving one another, and yet they do it anyway.

Oh, that horrible business, Hollywood! How dare they combat God for conforming people into believing in something...maybe it's all a matter of faith, and life is an illusion...

lakeman · 05-27-2008, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BibleThumper

I feel bad for lashing out at homosexuals, quoting levitcus 18:22.

I strongly believe that the Bible is the word of God, and that you can't just pick words from the Bible as it suits you, that would be creating your own faith according to comfort, and not according to truth. It is appeal to consequences, "I like this, therefore it must be true." Which it isn't- it is just a logical fallacy.

I need the Bible to be true, because if the Bible wasn't true, then God wouldn't be true, the way I was raised to believe in him. Some would say that is appeal to consequences as well, but it is not- it is just strong motivation.

Anyway, levitcus 18:22 says:

I used to believe that this meant that you couldn't sleep with men. But that is not what is written, word by word. It says that if you have doggy-style sex with a woman, you should not have doggy-style sex with a man. But you could have sex in the missionary position, then you don't lie with males as with females.

Not guilty on technicalities, but as a good fundamentalist Christian, my whole faith is based on technicalities.
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It is just possible that you need to research this issue as well as some of the fundamental issues of Christianity as well.

Latherty · 05-27-2008, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakeman

It is just possible that you need to research this issue as well as some of the fundamental issues of Christianity as well.

I don't know, this seems a reasonable get-out clause, worthy of a law degree. Can Bible thumper do my taxes?

BibleThumper · 05-28-2008, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithful One

I don't care if you don't like people using the Bible as back-up for there posts. I am going to use it. I believe God is real, and that he wrote the Bible for us to learn. If God is real, then I should probably read the Bible then, huh? Yeah, I think so.

I definitely agree!!! There are all sorts of vile attacks on the Bible out there, people claiming that it has been tampered with by kings and politicians, that you can't be sure that it really is the word of God and so on, but don't listen to them!!! That would mean that you couldn't be really sure what God's will is, and what would you base your faith on then? Some people are truly lacking judgement.

Quote:

Anyways:
If God had intended the human race to be fulfilled through both heterosexual and homosexual marriage, He would have designed our bodies to allow reproduction through both means and made both means of sexual intercourse healthy and natural. Homosexual anal intercourse carries a high risk of disease, this is recognized in Scripture where gay men are said to receive in their bodies the due penalty for their error.

I think you have a very interesting view on this, however even though this is intelligent, this is also an interpretation. You are actually not doing anything different here than low-life libertarians who are also interpreting the Bible. That is a VERY slippery slope.

You could then just as well say that God created homosexuals to control population, or God created love for homosexuals because even though satan had corrupted their sexuality, God grants all beings love. And ultimately God even had a purpose creating Satan.

You can't use logic on this matter, you have to stick to the Bible. Like roobarb says, sometimes you can't both have your cake and eat it.

Quote:

Hollywood has propagated the myth that when it comes to marriage "all you need is love." This is simply not true. Marriage is not based on emotion any more than any other partnership in life is. Marriage, like many human activities, involves emotion but it is not constituted by the presence of any particular set of emotions. I do not deny that many homosexuals feel deeply for their partners; however I do assert that no matter how deep the feelings, what they have is not a marriage in God's sight. It is a beautiful deception.

Faithful, I hear you. I believe what makes marriage so sacred, is the special bond between a man and a woman, but God didn't specify that we had to make a prenuptial agreement, or dress in white bridal gowns, or marry in church and not on a beach etc.

If you would use logic, God probably wanted man and wife to live securely together sharing love, to provide a caring environment for kids to grow up in. Research has shown, much to the dismay of modern-day parents, that kids are better off with a mom and dad sticking together, as long as they aren't fighting excessively.

So what we call "marriage" is more symbolic and rather arbitrary. God wanted man and woman to stick together, but now that I believe gays have a right to live, I don't really see a reason why gays shouldn't get the same benefits as christian couples, tax benefits etc.

BibleThumper · 05-28-2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roobarb

Now what I also find ironic is you quote the Old Testament. Why? You devout Christian fundamentalists should make up your mind. No you can't have your cake and eat it to and use the Old Testament strictly when its convenient to you. That is disingenuine.

I agree that it is disingenuine to only quote the parts of the Bible that supports our preferences, and leave out what goes against them. I can tell you that I won't leave out the Old Testament.

Quote:

Now you said;

"I strongly believe that the Bible is the word of God, and that you can't just pick words from the Bible as it suits you, that would be creating your own faith according to comfort..."

and then you say in the very next breath;

"I need the Bible to be true, because if the Bible wasn't true, then God wouldn't be true, the way I was raised to believe in him."

So on the one hand you denounce faith according to comfort and then in the very next breath demonstrate your faith is based on your need to be comforted.

That is a big CONTRADICTION. Why the disconnect? Why do you think you can lecture others not to use religon for comfort but you can?

I agree that it may seem contradicting at first glance. You have good logics skills to point that out, however not great skills, because then you would have seen that the last paragraph doesn't contradict anything. You can want something to be true and it can be true at the same time. I have an atheist renting a room in my house, and even he can understand that his non-faith has to do with him not liking the notion of an omnipresent God. Big Brother he calls it. Would you say that such a statement disproves atheism?

Quote:

As well your assumption that you must read the Bible literally for it to be true and make God true is illogical. Saying you MUST be illogical because that is what you were raised to believe means what-you can't think? You can't use reason? You just are some person who inherits and repeats verbatum what others tell you?

You are right that I often think according to appeals of consequences. I should probably do something about that.

Quote:

So now then, this justifies your guilt right? You need to go around hating and being intolerant of people cuz your religious doctrine says so-so there?

I know that I am not a logics expert, but this oversimplification looks to me like a straw man?

Quote:

Do you believe in Santa Claus? You believe in the tooth fairy? Sounds like you want to remain in an infant state where everything is delivered to you on a platter and you are sheltered from anything and everything you can't understand.

You seem very angry. If you had really known Jesus, then maybe you would remain more calm and compassionate.

Quote:

You were ignorant to use the Bible as a rationalization to hate gays and there is nothing to forgive you for over that. It makes you dangerous. It means you use the Bible as a weapon no different then someone else brandishes a gun. I would say to you what I would say to anyone who points their gun in my face, point it somewhere else fast and no I am not afraid of your gun and I do not respect any weapon.

Sometimes I am a bit ignorant.

Quote:

You want to live in a fantasy world where you don't have to use reason and logic and common sense, so be it, but no I am not here to be your cheer-leader and tell you oh that's well it makes you divine.

Nope. All it does is to point out to me you are another person running around with a loaded Bible looking to slew people. Thanks. Been there done that. Your people have caused enough pogroms and slaughters and genocides using that kind of approach.

If you actually read what I wrote, then I gave a biblical explanation that goes against slewing gays, not people in general, but gays in this case. But I guess you were too infuriated to catch that.