Nerv14

I wasn't saying that you though that there should be no taxes.
I also disagree with the system in place because it focuses more on a welfare state, but it fails to actualy invest in the poor to allow them to gain money on their own.

If someone doesn't work, then they don't deserve any money, but true help for people to live their lives free from the government is government help that I am behind.

I have basically said before what I feel about unemplyoment insurance and SS before, so there is no reason to repeat myself. :P

The problem with that system is that education costs too much money over short periods of time for many poor people to get education that matches their intelligence and work habbits. I would even find it acceptable if for the cost of colleges to be free, they required everyone to do a certain amount of work on campus.

I have a real problem with when only incredibly motivated and intelligent lower income families are able to get acceptable education when much less qualified higher income families are able to get their children to even better schools regardless of their child's performance.

Grants and working through college is great, (grants are a form of wealth distribution that aren't payed back) but the current system of them does not give enough hard working people the ability to use their skills to their potential.

In effect, I would even support a form of grants that would cap the costs of schools to their grants, and give grants to every student on their ability.

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.

Ernest Benn

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freckles

Nerv, a student who has no parental support is poor yet more than half of my friends paid for their schooling without their parents help. They had no money so they took out a loan. Your whole reasoning that it's too hard for the poor to do it is a crock. Most of them are still paying off their loans 9 years later.

It should be that only the motivated get college degrees. That is what a college degree special. Not everyone should have one. If you don't have the motivation or the skill to get through college, you shouldn't be there period.

In the wild, there is no healthcare. In the wild healthcare is 'Ow, I hurt my leg. I can't run. A lion eats me, and I'm dead.' Well, I'm not dead. I'm the lion. You're dead.

Nerv14

My point is that not everyone can do that, (half of your friends isn't a full consensus) and there is less motivated richer students that go to college instead, so the cost is still making less qualified students enter college.

As I said before, not everyone should go to college, but income of a parent shouldn't be an issue for the student to go to college.

Even if all schools were free, there still doesn't need to be enough room for the poorer students.

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.

Ernest Benn

freckles

It's not an issue. It only becomes an issue when a person decides they don't want to have to pay back their loans. No one, absolutely no one is stopping anyone from going to college in this current structure. If you choose not to go because you don't want to have to pay back your loans, that's your own damn problem. Don't make it mine.

In the wild, there is no healthcare. In the wild healthcare is 'Ow, I hurt my leg. I can't run. A lion eats me, and I'm dead.' Well, I'm not dead. I'm the lion. You're dead.

mjdsr

Why can't everyone do that? What is stopping them from taking out loans for school?

Nerv14

My point still sticks, you may have the motivation and drive, but most people rich or poor don't have that. It still doesn't make sense for the dumb rich person to go to a better college then a normal poor person. This is especially true because it was the parents of the students that may have helped the students to go to college, the rich students are not the ones to earn their college advantage.

Being able to pay back loans is a risk, and I don't think that economic risk should factor into if someone wants to go to a good college or not if they are qualified.

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.

Ernest Benn

metheron

A normal poor person can go to the same college as a dumb smart person, they will just have to pay for it themselves as compared to the rich kids parents paying for it. Why should the rich kids parents have to pay the tuition for the poor kid?

freckles

A better college? You get into a college generally on your aptitude, not on whether or not you need a student loan. You know, GPA, ACT, SAT, extra curricular activities, recommendations. Not on, 'check box a if you can pay upfront in cash. Check box b if you need financial assistance.' A college degree 99% of the time is a college degree. Most companies don't care as long as you have the requirement. There is no more risk to go to a top 20 school then there is to go to a bottom 20 school.

You are not making any sense to me anymore. Why don't you explain your situation and then we can discuss it because I am guessing that you are talking about yourself in this situation.

In the wild, there is no healthcare. In the wild healthcare is 'Ow, I hurt my leg. I can't run. A lion eats me, and I'm dead.' Well, I'm not dead. I'm the lion. You're dead.

Nerv14

No they can't, because they aren't able to get the grants that the richer person doesn't need, so it is therefore easier for the richer person to get into a school, even though the financial factor does not factor in ability.

This is a similar question: do you think that the child of a rich family deserves it to be easier for them to get a good education, and therefore it is easier for them to get a higher income. Also, do you see the loop in that when that rich student has children?

I think rich parents should help pay for poor kids because since a rich child is able to afford college, I don't think there is any reason that the poor child shouldn't be able to.

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.

Ernest Benn

freckles

You are going to have to help me out here. Give me an instance where a person was not able to apply for a loan or scholarship or a work program to pay for school?

And they don't have it easier. They still have to graduate. The only thing easier is that they might get the luxury of living in a private dorm or off campus and maybe go Greek. And even the Greek system accepts monthly payments now.

In the wild, there is no healthcare. In the wild healthcare is 'Ow, I hurt my leg. I can't run. A lion eats me, and I'm dead.' Well, I'm not dead. I'm the lion. You're dead.