Think for myself

Let me start by saying thank you to everyone currently participating in this thread, the first I ahve ever seen about Libertarianism that is actually civil.

As for your assertions Sparta, you can certainly make a case for them though I disagree to a point.

Here are my thoughts on the topic.

The current school system is an absolute waste. The level of bureaucracy is shameful. You have local, county, state, and federal oversight. We can easily cut a couple of those levels out. how about federal standards and local control? Why do we need the county and state involved? Should the vast majority of money be going towards the actual education of students rather than bloated administrations?

Welfare is abused. there is no doubt about it. Giving someone an endless poverty existence is not an answer. Obviously there are always going to be cases where people simply need help through no fault of their own or even through poor choices. I fully support a welfare to work program, with a person getting diminishing extended support for working and taking care of themselves rather than a blank check for doing nothing.

The fed is a tricky subject. That system too has been abused by greedy people and politicians that want to get elected. Restrict the amount of money that can be loaned out and restrict the money to only certain purposes.

Those are my thoughts on it.

Tick, on irony

Yea, well genious is hard to beat, but, at least we try.

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Sparta

You'd have to at least compare countries that have the same model, I don't see how examining the Soviet Union's transormation to the Russian Federation would help.

NEW YORK - This isn't even that much fun anymore. Burying the 2008 Yankees has become too darn easy - like practicing layups on an 8-foot rim or beating a 4-year-old at checkers.

Nerv14

Just curious, does any non-libertarian think that the federal government is only following the Constitution if they only carry the designated powers of Congress? I feel like I am the only liberal who feels that way.

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter"

-Winston Churchill

(What alternative do we have though?)

Defensor's analysis of Barack Obama, Democratic nominee for president of the United States:

Sparta

Considering I'm more of a Confederate than a Libertarian I'll have to stick with the only one I really disagree on, which is public schools.

There shouldn't be a federal standard for public schools, there should be a state standard. The reason I feel this way is because the only way for the fed to measure compliance is to apply tests, so schools end education and replace it with learning test material. Basically what you get are students who are drilled on the testing over and over in order to have the scores neccessary to get the federal funding, I don't think that's good for education.

NEW YORK - This isn't even that much fun anymore. Burying the 2008 Yankees has become too darn easy - like practicing layups on an 8-foot rim or beating a 4-year-old at checkers.

Nerv14

The problem is that the only way to actualy grade students in any objective way is tests. The child who gets a better federal test score on math, science, writing and reading is not ensured to do better in life, but I am pretty sure that they would be more likely to.

Also, I have a problem with state schooling because the inherent ability of states to reduce taxes to attract better busineses would cause education money to be cut as states would just try and brain drain each other. However, of the federal government picks some of the funding, then that would be lessened.

I don't even have much of a problem with charter schools or states run schools, but there should be funding and tests from the federal government to keep the schools up to certain standards.

I see the problem with a complete attention to tests, but that would arrise with all types of public schools as they focus on tests to get money from the state or local community. I don't know how localizing standards to the state would fix that problem.

I would also support federal money to public schools if they do well in other areas, such as art awards, science fair awards and writing awards. Money from tests is the easiest but that is not the only kind.

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter"

-Winston Churchill

(What alternative do we have though?)

Defensor's analysis of Barack Obama, Democratic nominee for president of the United States:

Think for myself

When it comes to education, I have to admit that I am old school. No more of this touchy feely, everyone gets a trophy just for participating crap. Tell the kid to sit down, shut up, and learn or they go to the principal's office.

Tick, on irony

Yea, well genious is hard to beat, but, at least we try.

Nerv14

lol, so you only think that test scores should matter?

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter"

-Winston Churchill

(What alternative do we have though?)

Defensor's analysis of Barack Obama, Democratic nominee for president of the United States:

Sparta

It can't be the easiest if it doesn't work. By having States run schools you divide the problem and localize it to the communities effected by the education. I can list, in order, the best school systems in my county and tell you which ones are lacking where, you can probably do the same for your county, but we can not do the same for counties out of state, we simply don't know without having experienced them.
How about instead of judging schools by raw test data we look at the product? Which schools are sending graduates to advanced education, which schools are releasing 18 year olds in to the work force? This is how corporate America judges institutions of higher learning, and at the local level, it's possible to make that call for public systems.

NEW YORK - This isn't even that much fun anymore. Burying the 2008 Yankees has become too darn easy - like practicing layups on an 8-foot rim or beating a 4-year-old at checkers.

Sparta

Well then you'd really be considered outdated I'm afraid. It has more to do with diet than "kids these days" I think. ADD and whatnot, it wasn't so much of an issue as it is now. As a coach for young kids, I can tell you these runts are fucked up.

NEW YORK - This isn't even that much fun anymore. Burying the 2008 Yankees has become too darn easy - like practicing layups on an 8-foot rim or beating a 4-year-old at checkers.

Think for myself

No. I think learning is the priority, not coddling.

Tick, on irony

Yea, well genious is hard to beat, but, at least we try.