Boyaka

what danger ??? America attacked Afghanistan and Iraq without reason , if you say it was 911 all the terrorists were saudis so it wasn't that. America is the biggest danger to the world just look at them now lining up to attack Iran. The world at large wants peace but the americans want 100 year wars.
Who was that danger you were on about ????

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Bourne

How about reading the entire thread. You'd notice that we're speaking hypothetically as to how Ron Paul would have acted had he been President during the Clinton and Bush terms. If you want to statrt another anti-US thread please do so but don't hijack this one.

But danger is present. Terrorist and criminals threaten the US and its allies. Iran has threatened to destroy Israel. N. Korea still is a threat to S. Korea.

How would Ron Paul deal with such threats if he were President and his campaign policies were in place?

michaelr

I took off yesterday Bourne, I also am enjoying our chat..

Most of our allies are hindered by us. We place restriction on them, but Paul I am sure would honor any treaties. Right now one can argue that there are no threats, well except from Russia, and that is because of our missile shield. We are causing the threat and the Russians are now talking about a new cold war and are considering massive arms build up. Our presence is creating an unsafe Europe.


We had all the intelligence that one could wish for, able danger tracked these guys and had an extensive data base, 2.3 terr bytes worth. What good did it do? If the official story was correct then this could have easily been quashed before anything happened. It has always been one of the oddities for me, hell they were ordered to destroy the data base. It is not that we have a lack of intelligence services, it is that we have to much. One always keeping an eye on the other. It is a waist and should be reigned in.

As for refueling, I dunno, can't a KC-135 launch from a carrier?

Bourne

Keep in mind that Paul offered no exceptions to his campaign proposal to withdraw all US forces to the CONUS and to only use US forces in a self defense role.

That said, how would we honor our treaty responsibilities and our commitment to our allies without a forward support presense in the region? For example, if our NATO ally Turkey were attacked by Iran, how would we be able to respond quickly and effectively if we had, as Paul proposes, no bases outside the CONUS?

We are present in S. Korea as part of a UN security force. How do we carry out that treaty responsibility without being present in S. Korea?

What if Israel, our ally, were attacked by Iran?

The information garnered in Able Danger wasn't taken seriously because there was a distrust in our intelligence community. How would enacting Paul's idea to seriously reduce federal law enforcement and intelligence improve service or moral?

A KC-135 is far too large to launch from even a super carrier like the Nimitz. But even a carrier launched tanker can't deliver the fuel amounts necessary for global flight by our strategic bombers. And carrier refueling depends on the carrier being in the vicinity of the flight path. A carrier is an impractical solution.

So again, given Paul's position that all US forces be withdrawn to the CONUS, how do we support military operations outside the US without maintenance facilities, hospitals, refueling facilities, food and medical stores and a plethora of other support services forward based for quick access?

michaelr

I am a little busy today Bourne, I will answer this part and get back to you. My grandson is coming over for a week, and the wife and I are making everything ready for him, then a trip to the park.

I think it would be a huge mistake for Iran to attack Turkey, NATO would deal with that PDQ. I also believe that Turkey has a far superior force than Iran and would do alright on their own. Secondly I would not want to send Americans to die for turkey or any other country. We have to get back to the business of defending our country and not the corporate interest. Lets face it we are way overstretched, we can not afford this type of expansion. Live would be grand if we shut down half of our foreign bases, but instead we shut them down here at home. That is a backward approach. We are financially supporting many nations, and now we are having trouble financing ourselves.

I am going to leave you with an article, our intervention IMO may cause more harm than good for everyone.....well except for the Military Industrial Complex, and I am sure damn tired of feeding them.

Russia Threatens Military Response to U.S. Missile Shield

Bourne

Have a great time this coming week! I hope that the weather cooperates and the three of you have loads of fun. Stop back when you can.

The situation is hypothetical but entirely possible. If Iran attacked Turkey and Turkey requested assistance from its NATO allies the US, as a signatory to NATO, would have a responsibility to assist Turkey. However under a Ron Paul administration US forces would be withdrawn to the CONUS and used only for defensive purposes.

How then would we honor our treaty obligations? Or do we just tell our allies, "Sorry, fend for yourself."

An awful lot of South Koreans would disagree with you about our military assisatnce. What would Paul have done when the N. Koreans invaded the South?

Boyaka

Thats all your danger and this warrants a 100 year world war waged by america against all ???

I thought police dealed with criminals not the army as for terrorists , your more at danger of being killed by a donkey than a terrorist. It's a perceived threat not a real one.

Iran has never threatened to destroy Israel where is your proof ??? don't tell me you watch FOX news.

If N. korea was a threat to anyone we would have seen it by now kim jong must be getting pretty old. I'm sure like many other countries he wants the best for his ppl rather than getting screwed over by america and china.

Bourne

Once again I'm asking that if you want to post your "I hate the US" nonsense, please start a new thread instead of trying to side track this thread.

100 year world war? What are you talking about.

There hasn't been another terrorist attack in the US since 9-11 because law enforcement and intelligence have improved and countered such threats. My point was that the threat still exists.

As for your comment about a donkey, I rather suspect that you live in a country where donkeys are the principle mode of transportation.

No genius, I don't watch Fox News. But Iran has threatened Israel.

New Iranian missiles threaten Israel | World news | The Guardian

RAFSANJANI SAYS MUSLIMS SHOULD USE NUCLEAR WEAPON AGAINST ISRAL

michaelr

I believe that Paul would work with both countries diplomatically. The issue with N. Korea is where Paul would shine, the blockade needs to be removed, we should be trading with them. They have a distrust of the west and they should. We have helped keep N. Korea in the dark ages(literally) for too long.

All of your questions have to do with war. Thats kind of sad. We should try diplomacy, and no I do not mean the type of heavy handed diplomacy that this country always uses. We should be a beacon of democracy that other countries would like to emulate. We can spread democracy that way, were failing that mission now. The world sees us as a brutal power and are very much afraid of us. It is like a scene out of a futuristic B Sci-Fi movie.

Bourne

All that's very idealistic but you have yet to answer a very important and realistic question regarding Paul.

We have global treaty obligations. How would Paul react if one or more of our allies were attacked keeping in mind that Paul proposed withdrawing all US forces to the CONUS? Does Paul advocate that we abrogate our treaty responsibilities?

So again, given Paul's position that all US forces be withdrawn to the CONUS, how do we support military operations outside the US without maintenance facilities, hospitals, refueling facilities, food and medical stores and a plethora of other support services forward based for quick access?

My questions aren't sad, they take into account the realities of the modern world.