sitting bull

Corporations dont price fix ?? almost spilt my coffee , which by the way is price rigged , did you ever chase up any of the results of global cartels that operate in every sector of most of the western capitalist economies ? geez - competeition is the worst thing that happen to any major corporation , the mafia never ceased nor is al capone dead . Racketeering just got a new name -
Workers unfairly bear the brunt of economic slowdown , inflation could wipe out any wage rise . Corporations on the other hand pass the costs on to the consumer so they are rarely in a sweat if things go wrong .If that failed their ring fenced liabilities allow them to cease trading and start over .

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Cheyneisaperson

I wasn't trying to say that corporations don't try to fix prices as that would be a different conversation. I was merely arguing that corporation price fixing and union price fixing are no different.

Nerv14

even though I strongly support unions even though many Southern States are un-unionized in the construction bussines I never really hear about any problems for the workers.

I think that unions are used too much for workers to gain trivial benefits and it slows down buissines too much, but they should always exist in case working conditions decline rapidly or wages drop compared to inflation rapidly.

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter"

-Winston Churchill

(What alternative do we have though?)

Defensor's analysis of Barack Obama, Democratic nominee for president of the United States:

johnlocke

Want to bet?

Unions do not establish one rate for labor across multiple market segments.

What they establish is a prevailing wage for skilled and unskilled union trades within a market segment.

Companies that price fix do so across MULTIPLE market segments.

Case in point: I don't pay the same wage rate for a union electrician in Fresno that I pay in San Francisco.

I would also point out that I am free to hire non-union electricians at whatever rate they charge.

The market then is not limited to one price for the service across multiple market segments. Neither is competition constrained artificially- meaning I have a choice.

In corporate price fixing, the market IS constrained artificially AND the price is set across MULTIPLE market segments. If we are talking about something like pistachios: It would mean that I would pay EXACTLY the same price for pistachios in Fresno (where they grow them) as I would in San Ysidro (where they don't and it's pretty danged far away.) It wouldn't matter whether I went to blue diamond or crazy Eddy's house of pistachios- the price would be the same. There would be no choice. If I wanted pistachios I would have to pay their prices.

This is a picture of a conservative trying to fix the economy.

johnlocke

What????

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

This is a picture of a conservative trying to fix the economy.

sitting bull

I still dont get your meaning - but anyhow to follow through isnt it the case that unions do not have in todays western economies any absolute certainty that their demands will be met ? Collective bargaining is just a market mechanism and unions are pivotal in seeking to maximise a return on their labor . In essence they are part of the healthy process of establishing a commodities worth .

TheHangingChad

Which is achieved by raping other workers that they at least pay something.

The power of labor has disappeared in this country and all you need to form an opinion on that is the knowledge that in the push and pull relationship of worker and employer, there’s only push. All the pull got shipped over seas.

The anti-union contingency is one comprised of those who've heard the horror stories in newspapers and from political candidates. To oppose most unions is to put labor in Cambodia. If you sincerely think that abolishing unions make America any stronger, you've never lived in the real world.

But before you think me a union-backing zealot, let me share a few stories from my own personal life.

My father is a prison guard and he was once accused of throwing laundry detergent in an inmates face. His union at the time, which was the breadth of the Massachusetts Correction Officers decided not to support his court case in any capacity because it would look bad for the incumbent governor who they were backing at the time.

Sounds like a negative union story right? It is. But the guards at his particular institution formed their own union, one free from the state-wide juggernaut and fought the charges and won resoundingly.

Unions have distorted labor prices, thats obvious, but when you look at Ohio its easy to blame the NAFTA agreements on union workers, but you can't say that we've had any reconciliation with the workers there. We've not readjusted prices, we've just put them out of work.

My basic argument would be that you need to be aware of what is making america stronger, and the blind, steadfast support of businesses is actually destroying us. If the american worker isn't working, we're not better off. If American jobs aren't in america, we're not better off. The Labor Unions have internal avenues available for people to get rid of faulty workers, it just requires documentation. Middle management generally has the issue of not documenting and wanting to fire people on the spot. They want tyranny and not bureaucracy.

Corporations will bring American jobs out or the third world only when we pay american workers 3rd world wages and thats a reality. What we need is another TR that isn't afraid to show some gravitas and tell businesses that "we're in the business of making sure we get the best for the country, and if we think you're not on the same path, we don't need you and you can take you business elsewhere."

Theres a reason TR is the only 20th century president on Rushmore. Our executive branch needs to grow some balls and say you're either in the business of America, or you can run a Business in Somalia.

Nerv14

I support Unions, but because of the suscess of un-unioned industries in the South compared with the North, I don't think unions are really needed now. But they still help.

It is just a part of the free market you can say. They only appear when there is a real need, but there is still excess.

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter"

-Winston Churchill

(What alternative do we have though?)

Defensor's analysis of Barack Obama, Democratic nominee for president of the United States:

johnlocke

My experience, with non-unionized shops, is limited. The places where I worked (which were non-union) were non-union because the employers treated the employees fairly. That being the case, the employees felt no need to organize. And that's the REAL lesson business should be taking away from the discussion of jobs, outsourcing, and unions.

This is a picture of a conservative trying to fix the economy.